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When We Were Kings

When We Were Kings

List Price: $19.98
Your Price: $11.98
Product Info Reviews

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Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Ali in action
Review: This film recounts the "Rumble in the Jungle", a classic battle between Mohammed Ali and George Foreman, and all that preceeded it. The film looks at everything in several ways, and I'm not sure if any particular audience can be completely satisfied. However, it does come together to be a very nice film.

It's not really a boxing documentary, because it has very little of the actual fight. I was disappointed in that. What it does have is a lot of Ali running his mouth (which he did so well). Being somewhat younger, I wasn't around for Ali's heyday. We always hear how great Ali was, but the Ali we see today, is the man stricken with Parkinson's. To see Ali in his finest form, was pretty cool. These weren't formal interviews or press conferences, but everyday Ali showboating for a camera. In this respect, it was a very pro-Ali film (to the victor goes the spoils I guess).

My complaints (besides lack of boxing):
It spends excessive time showing some of the clips from concerts with James Brown, B.B. King, and etc. They're great musicians, but I watched the movie to see boxing and boxing-related things, not a music video.

It spends another length of time, talking about how the fight was tying roots of blacks back to African and such. I thought it was bit of hogwash, because the fight was in Zaire only because the dictator of Zaire paid the 10 million for the fight: no other reason.

In summary, a very good film if you want to see Ali in action. If you want to see a lot of the fight, don't get this.

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: American Journey, African Props
Review: Leon Gast's documentary about the legendary Ali-Foreman fight works on all advertised levels. It is a fascinating snapshot of central Africa in the mid-1970s and a glimpse of Muhammad Ali at the peak of his charisma. The blow-by-blow account of the match is riveting even for people who could care less about boxing. Beneath its colorful exterior, however, lurks a disturbing political subtext that reveals how deeply cynical American attitudes towards Africa can be, even when those attitudes are held by African Americans.

When the "Rumble in the Jungle" promoters traveled to Zaire in 1974, they were entering one of the worst disaster zones in post-colonial Africa. Fourteen years earlier, Joseph Mobutu had seized power after torturing and murdering Patrice Lumumba, the leader of the nationalist movement and Zaire's first Prime Minister. He did so with the help of the CIA, who had fingered Lumumba as a potential troublemaker. Mobutu's government (which lasted until his overthrow in 1997) was brutally repressive when it bothered to govern at all. Even by the standards of African strongmen, Mobutu was a monster, and this was as clear in 1974 as it is today. Yet almost no one in "When We Were Kings", either the subjects of the documentary or present-day commentators, has anything to say about it. The fact that Mobutu was a dictator is mentioned only is passing, and is quickly shrugged off. He was an African leader, seems to be the attitude. They're all dictators. What do you expect? Then it's on to Ali's inspired riffing for the press and the inner workings of the rope-a-dope.

If Gast's film were only about boxing, its cynicism might just be bearable. After all, no one pictures Don King losing sleep over geopolitical niceties. But "When We Were Kings" also has a political agenda. It wants to depict a heady moment in the Black Power movement when African American luminaries traveled to Africa to express solidarity for the people of that continent. For the Americans in the movie, the trip to Africa was a profound exploration of their heritage and identity. We see Ali moved by the experience and don't doubt that he's sincere. It's just not clear what the Africans got out of the deal. They seem mostly just props in the first worlders' journey of self-discovery. In one of the movie's few interviews with an African, a man recalls how Ali's visit was a bright spot in the lives of many of his countrymen, who were generally having a hard time of it. That's about the best "When We Were Kings" can do by way of justification. Given the circumstances, this silence is galling. Maybe Ali could have come up with a clever rhyme for "let them eat cake."

Of course, it's a fact that many post-colonial governments were and are dictatorships, and Africa got more than its fair share. A certain degree of cynicism about third-world politics is realistic. But when the subject is Africa, a whole other level of cynicism comes into play: not only do you accept injustice; you don't even have to rationalize your acceptance. There's no way back in 1974 a left-wing Chilean-American boxer would have taken part in a title bout staged by Augusto Pinochet. Nor would Muhammad Ali have fought in the U.S. in a match bankrolled by a black gangster with known ties to white supremacists. So why does Mobutu's dog-and-pony show get a pass? The culprit appears to be the need on the part of the African Americans in the movie to romanticize Africa. (Tellingly, almost no one says the word "Zaire.") In one scene, Muhammad Ali stands in the cockpit of an African airliner. He expresses amazement at the fact that blacks can fly a jet plane, then amazement at himself for having ever thought otherwise. It's a powerful moment. You can see how a black man like Ali would crave an idealized image of Africa to serve as armor against the insidiousness of racism back home. Unfortunately, idealization comes at the price of ignoring a continent's worth of reality. In order to raise your fist, you have to close your eyes.

In his scathing criticism of "Heart of Darkness", the Nigerian novelist Chinua Achebe accuses Joseph Conrad of a particular sort of racism. What bothered him was the way that Conrad used an entire continent and its people as nothing more than a foil for European introspection: "Africa as setting and backdrop which eliminates the African as human factor." "When We Were Kings" is about as far from racist as a movie can get, but it still falls into Conrad's trap. Here the backdrop is a romantic notion of an African motherland, and the human factor is the reality of the brutally oppressive Mobutu regime. Gast may have gone all the way to Africa to get his footage, but the mindset of his film never left home.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Mister, we could use a man like Mobutu again
Review: I was confused by this movie. Is it a wildlife documentary, fight or concert film? Or is it everything sort of spliced together? I was watching it with a blank look on my face but felt compelled to give it 5 stars anyway. What happened to that nice man, Mobutu, anyway? National Geographic couldn't have made a better wildlife documentary!

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Wow
Review: This is a great documentary about the events leading up to the Rumble in the Jungle, and a good explanation of the fight itself. It shows a lot of clips and stuff, Muhammad Ali is very funny in this documentary, and it shows clips of the actual Rumble in the Jungle and explains it correctly and accurately. If you buy this, you should also buy the Rumble in the Jungle along with it, since the documentary does not show the entire fight. I would watch the documentary first, then stop it when the documentary gets up to the fight, watch the actual Rumble in the Jungle, then watch the documentary explanation of what happened in the fight. Definitely worth it so long as you get it with the Rumble in the Jungle.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Rope A Dope
Review: Next to "Hoop Dreams", this is the best sports documentary I have ever seen. Terrifically entertaining, funny, historic, illuminating, controversial, colorful, poetic, chaotic and just out and out brilliant. Not to mention that the "Rumble in the Jungle" boxing match took place in a stadium built on top of a torture chamber. Yikes!

Muhammed Ali may have not been the greatest fighter of all time (Rocky Marciano would have killed him) but he was certainly the most entertaining. His press conferences were actually more amusing than his fights. He would bust out hilarious poetry on the spot: "They was shocked when Nixon resigned, but wait till I whoop Foreman's behind." He never knew when to shut up, whether in practice or in the hallway, or in his room, or out in the courtyard, or in the streets. Muhammed Ali was non stop kinetic energy. A motormouth who somehow backed up all his incessant taunts. His trainers sweated more than he did. His friends warned him how big Foreman's right hand was. They told him to tone down the rhetoric. The reporters hoped he would keep it up.
Foreman was a monster of a man who's punch was so powerful he actually puts a dent into a punching bag during the film! Ali didn't care. Ali was the "greatest fighter of all time". You cring as you watch the Foreman pummel his sparing partner with one thunderous blow after the next. You contrast that with Ali who spends more time yapping than sparring. You think to yourself: "Ali is gonna get killed. My hero is gonna get killed."
You see how the entire continent of Africa is fixated with this fight. You see how Don King works his magic/chicanery. You cringe some more. You see how the African kids idolize Ali and imitate his boxing moves. You smile. You finally see the fight. You see Ali getting pummeled round after cring-inducing round. You think to yourself: "He's dead." You see Foreman getting tired. You suddenly see Ali emerging fresh as a daisy. He had his hands up the entire fight. He was using his rope-a-dope. He had this whole thing worked out. You see him take over the fight. You're astonished, amazed, spellbound. You want Ali to be president of your country. You want him to marry your daughter. You once again idolize this man. Man, this is a great documentary!

Rating: 2 stars
Summary: Up until the actual fight, there's not much to excite you
Review: For some reason, in the movie "Ali" people were complaining about the movie because it had to many "music videos" as they say. I thought the movie was fantastic myself. You can do what Michael Mann did in a movie. But it is very different with a documentary. What this film does is show alot of scenes that will put you to sleep. Your eyes are fixed on the opening scenes where Muhammad Ali one of the things he did best, building up the fight by calling George Foreman "The Mummy" and things like that. And your eyes are fixed on the film when the Rumble in the Jungle actually starts. But in between that, theres nothing. I was talking about music videos in "Ali" in this it does just that which does make the documentary seem extremely boring. But I also believe that this film makes it look like Ali was doing terrible.
The film reshows the same scenes over and over again. I think I remember seeing one scene where Ali got trapped on the corner being punched in the face by Foreman 6 times. It makes it look like Ali didn't have a chance and at the end he just got extremely lucky. The reshowing of the same shots over and over again can be useful if well done, it was not so in theis documentary. If you want truly see the inginuity of Ali's strategy in this fight buy the two disc set documentary of Muhammad Ali called "Muhammad Ali - The Whole Story." Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the film the first time I watched it, but that was basically the only time i enjoyed it.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: The most inspirational movie of all time
Review: All sports films have the advantage of being meaphors for life. This is the only sports movie that transcends its genre. It is a real time documentary of what maybe one of the greatest fights, by two of the greatest fighters at a point in history when African American rights in the US were exiting the hard fought period of the social rights movement in the 1960's.

The boxers, personalities surrounding the events and two of Americas greatest journalists oversee the story (Plimpton and Mailer). Ali is shown as a real human; vulnerable, majestic and totally inspirational.

Few films about sports personalities have really elevated the figure without use of cheap devices and Hollywood smaltz. This film just lets the players and watchers unfold in a truly golden experience. It was a remarkable event that most directors would have over touched in editing and direction. This is like the perfect meal; everything comes together in a manner only fate could play a hand in. This really is an unrepeatable event and film.

No matter what color, gender or nationality you are this is one of the top unrecognised films of the latter C20th.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: The Essential Ali
Review: As a kid I was an enormous Ali fan. As an adult, I have admired him for his humanitarian efforts and battle against Parkinsons, but I forgot about the excitment of Ali. Better than the movie "Ali," this movie brought me back to the 70s and the excitement that he generated. People wanting to understand the Ali phenomenon should watch this movie. All the better because it did not start as a movie about Ali.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: A complete disservice to Muhammad Ali
Review: To watch this film, you would think that Muhammad Ali spent the entire Foreman fight cowering against the ropes. That simply is not true.

For some reason, the people who made this film decided that they needed to enhance the "David and Goliath" aspects of the fight at the expense of the truth.

If you watch the fight, the unedited version of the fight available on HBO's "Muhammad Ali: The Greatest Collection," you see a very strong Muhammad Ali who flew to Africa to win a fight, not to make some kind of world-changing statement.

In When We Were Kings, we are constantly told how all of the sports writers picked Foreman to win the fight.
Watch the actual broadcast, and you learn that most reporters changed their minds as they watched Ali and Foreman train. They originally picked Foreman to win, but found themselves more impressed with Ali.

The highly edited--and spun--version of the fight in When We Were Kings shows clip after clip of Ali doing his "rope-a-dope." The movie gives the impression that Ali did little more than hang on for life from rounds 2-7.

Ali did rely on the "rope-a-dope," but he also came out swinging at the end of every round. That was Ali's motus operandi in his latter fights--dazzle the judges at the end of every round.
He may have done the "rope-a-dope" for much of the fight, but he kept an eye out for any openings, and caught Foreman off guard several times.
As far as the Greatest hanging on for dear life, Ali just did not do that. He constantly taunted Foreman. Hell, at one point he pinned Foreman's head under one of his arms and winked at Jim Brown--the NFL legend was one of the announcers.

When We Were Kings ignores Joe Frazier--the former champ attended the fight and sat with the commentators. According to Frazier, Foreman was fighting a "foolish fight." Frazier gave most rounds to Ali. Those he did not give to Ali he called "even."

Hell, When We Were Kings even ignores the great Muhammad Ali when he gets in the way of their version of the story. They tried to portray him as having come out of the fight humbled and philosophical. In truth, he came out stating that he never lost a round, joking and shouting.

If you are looking for fiction about Muhammad Ali, this movie is second only to the comic book "Superman vs. Muhammad Ali." If you are looking for a real look at Ali, you can do much better with Muhammad Ali: The Greatest Collection or the book King of the World.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: The real deal
Review: This is a great documentary on Ali! This movie seems to have inspired the Will Smith Ali movie because a lot of that movie feels like a replay of this documentary. WHEN WE WERE KINGS is a movie that really keeps you engaged, although I would have preferred less focus on the musical event and more footage of Ali. I would rate this documentary right up there with SHADOW BOXERS, the incredible women's boxing documentary about Lucia Rijker.


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