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Cradle of Saturn

Cradle of Saturn

List Price: $6.99
Your Price: $6.29
Product Info Reviews

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Rating: 5 stars
Summary: How much is science and how much is fiction?
Review: I'm really sorry that so many who reviewed this book tend to follow the sheep and believe everything they read and hear from the self-proclaimed scientific experts. This book was very good and I found myself wondering...could it be true? Those who pooh-pooh it are convinced that all the current science theories are correct. I remind you...science is generally theory...not fact!

I really enjoyed Hogan's revisit to Murphy's Law and the theories about the existence of dinosaurs, and, of course, the basis of the book...that being the formation of our solar system. The book is not an easy read, but once you get into it it's hard to put down. I consider the best scifi to be those where you ask, how much IS science and how much is fiction?...and at that, Hogan is a master.

For those of you who think you believe all those current scientific theories I mentioned, please read Hogan's "Minds, Machines and Evolution" and "Rockets, Redheads and Revolution." But, don't do so with your eyes and mind closed.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Where is James Hogan and what have you done with him?
Review: I've been a fan of James P. Hogan's hard sf from dayone. "Inherit the Stars" I literally could not put down, andthe same was true of the other Giants novels and many of his other works. In "Cradle of Saturn" Hogan appears to be trying to dust off his "Inherit the Stars" concept of explaining ancient mysteries but to pull out Velikovsky's ... long-discredited ideas is, to me, very un-Hogan-like (I would have been less surprised if Hogan, an aggressive atheist, had Found the Light). And he still hasn't learned to create realistic characters. Hogan's people are either all good (usually crusading scientists hooked firmly into Big Business - oh yes, very believable!), or all evil (usually scientists working for the government who are blind doofuses). His female characters have been utterly cardboard throughout. Toss them into a typical plot replete with Stupid Science and you get...well, "Cradle of Saturn." If you want to read Hogan (and you should, if you enjoy hard science fiction), start with "Inherit the Stars." It was his first novel, and he was at the height of his plotting and creative powers. This book, on the other hand, is worth leaving on the store shelf until it's stripped.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: A Real Bummer
Review: I've enjoyed a number of Mr. Hogan's books in the past but I actually put this one down after 460 pages with only 65 pages to go. It seems to have every one-dimensional charactor and plot cliche you would expect to see in a bad SciFi book. All the scientists are good guys and all the politicians and media are bad guys (and of course they're conspiring together to hide the "truth"). Although there was some interesting science it couldn't overcome a depressing and predictable plot. By the time the hero (a scientist, of course) realizes that he's been in love with his assistant all along you just wish they would both die and put us all out if our misery.

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Good book, wrong genre
Review: Its a good read. even better for the generation (below 45) who weren't there for the last round of Velikovsky's popularity. The characters are all out of central casting, the scenes are well done if predictable. if I had bought it on an airport rack it could have served me well the last six times Air West left me at the gate with multiple hours to kill because they are organizationally incapable of keeping to a schedule IMHO. However, this was sold to me as cutting edge hard SF by Baen, a well regarded genre imprint. Truth in advertising please. It is neither hard, nor SF at all. Its a made for Hollywood end of the world disaster novel. A very good one but not what I thought I ordered.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: A mind is a terrible thing to waste...
Review: James P. Hogan has a mixed record in the world of "hard" science fiction, with some good books and some not so good. His latest novel, "Cradle of Saturn" (COS), goes well beyond the "not so good" into the "terrible". Ideally, good science fiction results from the combination of good fiction plus at least reasonably plausible science. Unfortunately COS fails on both counts. The writing is turgid and uninteresting, and the "science" is pathetically bad.

In recent years Hogan seems to have fixated on the idea that a conspiracy of scientists is attempting to conceal the Truth about a variety of topics, including AIDS, the stratospheric ozone layer, dinosaurs, evolution, and so forth. Most of the reasoning he uses to support these claims is neither original nor credible. As someone who has some familiarity with atmospheric chemistry, I can say with confidence that most of his allegations about stratospheric ozone are worthless.

Yet in COS, Hogan carries his anti-scientific revisionist nonsense far, far beyond most of his earlier writings. The central theme of this book based on the work of Velikovsky, a crackpot whose ideas about the history and dynamics of the solar system were unsupportable when first published in the early 1950s, and have only become more so in the past half century. To justify his use of Velikovskian ideas, Hogan has to bend, break, or ignore most of modern geology and physics.

Some might argue that the science doesn't matter, as long as the literary side of COS is well done. Unfortunately, it's not. Hogan's characters are cardboard cutouts, with no depth or personality. His prose is uninteresting, and the story frequently is pushed aside to make room for thinly-veiled rants relating to Hogan's bizarre anti-scientific obsessions. It IS possible for a persevering reader to make his or her way through to the end of this book, but the question is -- why would one want to? There are far more worthwhile books out there than could possibly be read in anyone's lifetime; plowing your way through "Cradle of Saturn" will only prevent you from reading something else that would probably be infinitely better.

If you really want to read something interesting by Hogan, I'd recommend "Inherit the Stars" and "The Proteus Operation" over "Cradle of Saturn" any day.

Rating: 3 stars
Summary: Not great but...it sure raises some questions!
Review: OK, forget the plot and such. It's OK, nothing special.

But after reading it, I did a bit of digging:

1) The biggest flying birds today are in the 40lbs range max. And I've personally seen an Albatros...they fly OK, but the takeoffs...Jesus :).

2) The biggest "flying dinosaur" (actually not quite by most classifications, but who cares) weighed around 300lbs and had a 26ft+ wingspan.

2.5) It's even worse than that: membrane-type wings are far less efficient than the cross-section of a modern bird wing. It's like comparing a hang-glider's wing with that of a Cessna, literally. Bats manage, but the're not trying to grow into something big enough to eat a Sumo wrestler :).

3) The biggest land animal today, the African Elephant, weighs a max of about 8 tons. And has, count 'em, FOUR legs.

4) T. Rex and some of it's relatives were in that weight class, with TWO legs.

5) The biggest land dinosaurs were up near ONE HUNDRED tons. Or more. And instead of having short stubby heads, necks and tails, they had necks and tails longer than most anacondas for God's sake.

So did those old critters exist in earth's current gravity?

Hogan makes an excellent case they didn't.

Read the book.

Rating: 3 stars
Summary: "Express elevator to hell! Goin' DOWN!"
Review: Okay, the villains make cardboard look thick, the end-of-the-world genre has been "done to death" :), and the Kronan social model is, to be charitable about it, ridiculous. Add to the foregoing the fact that it took me four tries to get past the book's opening, which doesn't (apparently) have *anything* to do with the story, and you'll understand why, despite the fact that I'm a Hogan fan, it took a year for me to get around to this one even after I bought the hardcover.

On the other hand, I finally discovered that this book has two things going for it. First, is Hogan's attitude toward scientific evidence, which shines through many of the scenes. It can be summed up in the phrase "evidence outweighs theory," and Hogan's characters make their case without theatrics. The second thing is the *scale* of the story. It is uncommon for an author to show you in your guts how having six billion voices screaming "INCOMING!" simultaneously feels.

Once this story really got rolling in Part Three, I was hooked. It was like stepping on a skateboard at the top of Mount Everest with no brakes. At midnight, I found myself turning "just one more page" and forcibly reminding myself I had to get up early. I had to know "what comes next, what comes next,...", and I was relating seriously to the hero, who tries desperately to do the right thing even if it means giving up what might be his only shot at survival. That sort of involvement is something only solid writing can create. To be sure, this book has its flaws and it's not Hogan's best work, but it was worth the time and effort I put into it, and I don't recommend starting it if you don't have the time to finish it. Like all the rest of James Hogan's writings, it is good, solid reading. I may not read this one a second time, but I'm glad I read it a first.

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Science Fiction is SPECULATIVE Fiction
Review: Remembering that Science Fiction should more properly be called Speculative Fiction (from Larry Niven), this book meets the criteria very well. Hogan puts a readable and interesting tale around the question "What if Velikovsky was right?" If you like stories that explore different ideas that make your mind work somewhat, you should enjoy this one. If you decide that all existing scientific theories are wrong, or right, based on this book, you are being as closed minded as Hogan's "establishment" scientific bad guys. Treat this one as a good read exploring, literally, earthshattering ideas and handle the scientific arguments by looking at source documentation, (some of which Hogan was nice enough to reference in the paperback), not relying on this fiction book, and you'll enjoy "Cradle of Saturn".

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Science Fiction is SPECULATIVE Fiction
Review: Remembering that Science Fiction should more properly be called Speculative Fiction (from Larry Niven), this book meets the criteria very well. Hogan puts a readable and interesting tale around the question "What if Velikovsky was right?" If you like stories that explore different ideas that make your mind work somewhat, you should enjoy this one. If you decide that all existing scientific theories are wrong, or right, based on this book, you are being as closed minded as Hogan's "establishment" scientific bad guys. Treat this one as a good read exploring, literally, earthshattering ideas and handle the scientific arguments by looking at source documentation, (some of which Hogan was nice enough to reference in the paperback), not relying on this fiction book, and you'll enjoy "Cradle of Saturn".

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Cradle of Saturn is stillborn
Review: Science Fiction is, by the very title, supposed to have at least a bit of real science to it, and James Hogan usually lives up to that custom rather well. In this book, however, he disinters the hoariest of pseudoscience, that of Immanuel Velikovsy, who in a series of truly awful best-sellers several decades ago sent planets ricocheting around the solar system rather like billiard balls, thereby accounting for all sorts of ancient history. As a practicing geologist, I found "Cradle of Saturn" to violate everything we know to be true about earth history, and to be preachy and righteous about it to boot. I found I could not enjoy the story when the background was so profoundly antiscience and factually incorrect - suspension of disbelief was quite impossible. That said, if you can ignore or even ignore this outer fringe worldview, the story itself was gripping.


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