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Authentic Thaumaturgy

Authentic Thaumaturgy

List Price: $20.95
Your Price: $14.67
Product Info Reviews

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Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Skip it
Review: Does this let you do real magic? No. At least, I hope not...

What, then, is this for?

This is written as a guide by a self-styled Real World Magician on how to translate the magic he knows of into gaming terms. Bearing in mind this is his perspective, and that what is "real" is not necessarily the best thing, this is actually a useful book.

He basically goes into magical laws (of which Murphy's has been included), the relationship between magic and psionics (see The Psionics Handbook for D&D3 for a similar view), cultural references, and, finally, a rump magic system that's very calculation-intensive.

Is this for everyone? No. Mr. Bonewits has some very, ah, strong opinions that some might find irritating, offensive, or otherwise bad. It also might not be useful to everybody, given that I know very few people who actually make up their own systems. I bought it, but am not going to ever use it for anything other than reading material. However, I am glad that I bought it. You may want to do some quick perusing in the store first, though.

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Nice, fun, very opinionated
Review: Does this let you do real magic? No. At least, I hope not...

What, then, is this for?

This is written as a guide by a self-styled Real World Magician on how to translate the magic he knows of into gaming terms. Bearing in mind this is his perspective, and that what is "real" is not necessarily the best thing, this is actually a useful book.

He basically goes into magical laws (of which Murphy's has been included), the relationship between magic and psionics (see The Psionics Handbook for D&D3 for a similar view), cultural references, and, finally, a rump magic system that's very calculation-intensive.

Is this for everyone? No. Mr. Bonewits has some very, ah, strong opinions that some might find irritating, offensive, or otherwise bad. It also might not be useful to everybody, given that I know very few people who actually make up their own systems. I bought it, but am not going to ever use it for anything other than reading material. However, I am glad that I bought it. You may want to do some quick perusing in the store first, though.

Rating: 0 stars
Summary: Who will and who won't enjoy this book...
Review: I first wrote "Authentic Thaumaturgy" over twenty years ago because, like many other fans of Fantasy Games who actually knew something about real magic (so to speak), I found how those games treated magical characters annoyingly inaccurate. At the behest of a game publisher, I wrote a book discussing what was great and what was awful about how various games handled magic, and telling how magic users in "real" human cultures have thought of magic and religion. This led to a series of suggestions and examples of how game designers, referees and ordinary users could adapt the games and characters they loved to make them more authentic, at least from a Pagan thaumaturgist's point of view. "A.T." was never a complete system of game magic, nor was it meant to be. Yet it became one of those books that survived for twenty years in multiple generations of photocopies passed from hand to hand, and had, I am told, a major influence on game designers and referees.

So when I was asked to do a second edition of "A.T." I was delighted to comply. I've learned a bit more about magic and games in twenty years, and the gaming industry has gone through major changes. I'm told the new edition is a dramatic improvement over the first (one of those compliments authors both dread and enjoy hearing), but it does seem to disappoint certain categories of readers. Those still wanting a complete game magic system that will work in any fantasy game, still won't find one -- there are too many kinds of fantasy games, played in too many universes, in too many different media, with too many individual variations by groups of players, for anyone to create such a paragon of game theory. Those who are hostile to the very idea of magic being real won't enjoy my caustic comments about Scientism, but one has to wonder why they are reading books about game magic to begin with! This question also holds for those members of religions who consider all magic done by anyone other than themselves "demonic," and all games that involve pretending to be characters who cast spells or worship different deities in imaginary worlds, to be somehow "spiritually dangerous" (this rather resembles denouncing the "Monopoly" game as the cause of ruthless capitalism).

But here are some folks who *will* enjoy "Authentic Thaumaturgy": gamers who want to know how closely their favorite fantasy game matches traditional beliefs in this world; designers who want to create new games that have magical or religious elements to them; game players who want to dump really stupid magic systems and who have been looking for good arguments to present to their referees; people who want a clear vocabulary for discussing wizards, witches, priests and shamans, whether inside a game environment or out in the "real" world; modern polytheists who are looking for a game magic system that doesn't insult their beliefs; fans of my first book, "Real Magic" (which I published right after graduating from UC-Berkeley), who want to know how my thinking about various topics has evolved; and even people who are just curious to know what all the fuss is about!

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Every magician needs a copy - For gamers, it's a resource,
Review: If written today, this would be a simulation program - and it desperately needs one, ideally written to run on a Palm.

As a workable simulation system for role-playing, it just sucks; it's far too complex. It's far more accurate than any comparable system, but if you play it, all you will be playing IS magic.

As a workable simulation system to explain the process of magic in non-mystical terms, it is truly unique, and near as I can tell, accurate within the bounds of experimental error.

So as a means of developing a workable "spell list" for a campaign or a character, to then be expressed in other terms - magnificent. Likewise, it's great for designing effective rituals. (Um. This might be a "danger, will robinson, danger" moment for gamers - as it IS great for designing effective rituals.)

Authentic Thaumaturgy begs to be revisited and turned into a true gaming engine. It also begs to be revisited and turned into a resource aimed at truly pragmatic real-world spell design.

But until that's done, it's a great resource book, and the ideas it contains aren't easily found in any other single place.

BTW, I considered Bonewitz's uncensored opinions about nearly everyone under the sun to be hilarious, even when they annoyed me.

Isaac; "A spell is a THING, not a process!"
Don't confuse the spell with the ritual that produces it.

RITUALISTS! [snort]

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: A valuable addition to any gamer's library
Review: If you've ever wondered about the theory behind the magic systems used in your favorite RPG, this gem will surely enlighten you. Bonewits talks about the origins of the magic systems used in various games, shows how they are different from "real world" magic theories, and presents alternative approaches that will make your favorite game even more exciting. While he's obviously not a gamer himself, he gives those of us who are plenty of tools to modify our current games or create new ones. This requires work and imagination, but anything worthwhile does.

Rating: 2 stars
Summary: Unplayably complex, and full of bigoted editorializing
Review: The "magic system" in this book is in no way generic or easily adaptable to anything but Bonewits' personal belief system. It contains complicated formulas for generating lumens, foot pounds per square inch, and so on, and uses tons of acronyms and new stats to track. (MCL = Magical Clarity Limit, ProSPer = Probability of Spell Persistence, MPC = Mana Point Cost, etc.) The result, a percentile system, is not fun, innovative, or even "realistic." It's using algebra and a calculator to model the way Bonewits believes magic really works.

Oh yes, the author believes magic really works. As he repeats over and over again. He also believes that Christians are evil, skeptics are blind, scientists are evil and blind, and he never passes up an opportunity to take a cheap shot at all the folks who don't follow the One True Religion (neopaganism).

As a gaming supplement, it's of minimal utility, and as a book about "real magic," it will probably annoy you more than inform you, unless you happen to share the author's views.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Skip it
Review: The idea behind this book is interesting, to make a generic magic system based on real world magical beliefs. Boneswits failed miserably.

Bonewits spends most of his pages explaining how anyone who doesn't agree with him is either a fool or a liar. When he does get to game rules, they are too complex. Literally dozens of stats must be calculated, many of them vary from spell to spell and casting to casting. Furthermore, these stats are indexed and crossed referenced poorly or not at all.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: great resource, highly technical
Review: This is a great book to add to your collection for roleplaying for all hard-core players, especially those who want a true feel to their magic system. Bonewits is the only person alice who hold a degree in thaumaturgy, and from ucla no less. He adds depth to magic systems everywhere. The only to disadvantages are that you have to translate what he says into the gaming system of your choice, and he lays only the basic groundwork for revamping all the spells out there. The material is straight out of his other work, Real Magic. I love the book, just am worried about using it in my already made games.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: great resource, highly technical
Review: This is a great book to add to your collection for roleplaying for all hard-core players, especially those who want a true feel to their magic system. Bonewits is the only person alice who hold a degree in thaumaturgy, and from ucla no less. He adds depth to magic systems everywhere. The only to disadvantages are that you have to translate what he says into the gaming system of your choice, and he lays only the basic groundwork for revamping all the spells out there. The material is straight out of his other work, Real Magic. I love the book, just am worried about using it in my already made games.

Rating: 3 stars
Summary: Good for things to "keep in mind"
Review: While Bonewits does make some good points in this book his academic perpective comes into the work too heavily. The most useful parts of the book are the background material and idea that spells (and many mental powers) work in a certain way and have relationships and laws that govern them. Further, the suggestion that a magician's personal energy is not the only source for powering mental abilities is an important idea. The ideas in this book, coupled with an improv approach to magic (like Mage the Ascension or GURPS' improvised magic) can lead to a rewarding magic system with a realistic feel. The book also points out that all mental powers are closely related so the idea that "magic" is seperate from "psionics" may just be a perceptual thing rather than actual. (So two systems for both in one game may not be needed.) Bottom line: A useful tool that requires work to implement.


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