Ten Things I Learned Wrong from a Conservative Church

Rating:
Summary: Uneven but useful
Review: As I begin I remind the reader that a fair-minded person should be able to read a book dispassionately and then wait to the end to draw any conclusions about content or authorial prejudices. The temptation exists to take offense to the title, "Ten Things I Learned Wrong From a Conservative Church" and blithely dismiss anything that Killinger says that could be found (in spite of ourselves) meaningful or useful.

Dr. John Killinger states that he wrote the book to share his experiences with various aspects of conservative Christian expressions over the years and his personal reactions to them. He devotes his introduction to describe to the reader how he was raised in the Southern Baptist Convention and how much his upbringing in a conservative church means to him despite shifts in belief. Right away he proclaims, "A conservative church probably saved my life...I expect my life would have been hell without it."

This book is meant to highlight ten "wrong teachings" of the conservative church that Killinger once accepted, along with the reasons why he disagrees with them now. Therefore, "Ten Wrong Things" suffers from a common malady of such list-based books; that is to say one could write volumes on any one of his chapters. As such, this would frequently leave me with the feeling that Killinger could not adequately state his case.

The first chapter is about the old question of the nature of the Bible. Is it to be regarded as the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God, or a product of brilliant but uninspired human beings, or somewhere in between? Like most non-conservatives, Killinger has taken issue with claims about the supposed inerrancy or infallibility of the Bible, yet he believes that truths about relating to God are found within its pages. I did not find much that was new or useful in this chapter. If anyone seeks to form a non-inerrantist framework for approaching the Bible would do better to read the excellent book Inspiration and Authority: The Nature and Function of Christian Scripture by Paul Achtemeier.

The author next sets his sights on "penal theology" that heavily emphasizes sin to the point that people can feel abnormal guilt and shame. He includes a disturbing account of a woman who couldn't bring herself to take Communion because she never felt righteous enough. Killinger proceeds to build an argument that substitutionary atonement was a workable image for ancient people who understood the offering of sacrifices, and that God did not in any literal sense require that Jesus die for the sins of the world. It is highly unfortunate that Killinger writes as if the penal substitution theory is the only understanding of the atonement that Christians have ever known. There have been several theories advocated over the centuries and, as one writer put it, they may all be windows onto a reality we cannot quite grasp. Killinger continues to think in unfortunate either/or categories with his chapter about exclusive claims that Jesus is the only means of access to God. He dismisses John 14:6 as the words of a semi-fictional Jesus of the most contrived gospel, and then goes on to say that while we find something special in Christ, he never spoke of himself in exclusivistic terms. Again, I recommend a book in place of this chapter. No Other Name by John Sanders makes a solid case for inclusivism, the theological middle position between hard exclusivism and open universalism.

The next chapter speaks to a trait of conservative churches that seems to be decreasing - the belief that members of other Christian denominations are probably lost. Killinger also spends some time deservedly berating conservatives for neglecting social issues. "One of the shortcomings of the conservative church," he writes, "is its focus on the value of church membership to those on the inside and its almost total neglect of the mission of the church to those who live in constant pain." After this the author turns to the matter of worship and notes how he came to find the value in prepared prayers, despite the criticisms of some of his conservative students that such prayers are "unspiritual."

Ten Things then moves to criticize conservatives who go overboard about small issues such as alcohol, including one pastor who preached one hour and forty-five minutes on the subject. Killinger condemns the treatment of women as unequal in ministry ability and describes how conservatives would infiltrate moderate churches that elected female deacons in order to sow discord. He also takes his shots at creationism.

There is a chapter on human suffering and Killinger takes to task the idea of a reward/punishment scheme in which God punishes people with plagues and crises for sins and rewards righteousness with prosperity or happiness. It bothers me that Killinger could tell so many stories of "Bible-believing" Christians embracing such a theology even though Jesus rejected it when the disciples asked him about the man born blind.

The last chapter is devoted to a spate of "horror stories" that illustrate the dark side of conservatism. There is a particularly engaging story of his own experience that carries on for several pages, and I could not do it justice here. But it includes censorship, character attacks, foul language from a Southern Baptist Executive Secretary, and the circulation of falsehoods. The story of his conflict with Jerry Falwell's Old Time Gospel Hour includes death threats, phone taps, and mail tampering. Such horror stories like his and those I have heard from others have made me realize why "Southern Baptist" can be such a negative label in our society.

I suggest that Ten Things would be a fascinating read for anyone interested in exploring non-conservative perspectives in Christianity. As a moderate, I would describe Killinger as to the left of my perspective, but I do not think he has fallen off the deep end, so to speak. He continues to acknowledge the Resurrection of Jesus and the work of God in our lives. In my opinion, he treated some of the issues in his book poorly despite his strong academic background. Probably the greatest value of this work is found in the anecdotal "horror stories" that show the darker expressions of conservatism or fundamentalism.


Rating:
Summary: Invaluable Insights from a Baptist Insider!
Review: Authored by a former prominent Southern Baptist pastor and professor who was once deemed a "rising star" in that denomination, this book provides the wisdom, insights and learnings of a veteran pastor who is now able to reflect back upon the experiences of his truly dynamic career.

This work offers the general public insights into our nation's largest Protestant denomination that only a well positioned insider could possibly have discerned. I read Killinger's book over the course of only two days. It is very well written and truly compelling - you can't wait to read what he has to say next!

The work is somewhat similar to that of Bruce Bawer's "Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity" as well as to the popular "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism" by John Shelby Spong, but is more balanced, less dense, and much less strident in tone than the others.

I am tempted to assert that Killinger, in a few places, may have "overstated" or "overly generalized" in his remarks about the ways and practices of the Southern Baptist Convention, but it could well be that he isn't. If not, then this work shines a truly needed exposing light upon the denomination that is most represented in our current U.S. Congress - and that currently has "the keys to the kingdom" of current U.S. foreign and domestic policy.

In this United Methodist pastor's opinion, this work ought to be required reading in all mainline seminaries and I highly recommend it for adult Sunday School or church book club discussions.

Other books of a similar nature include: "Theological Crossfire: An Evangelical/Liberal Dialogue" by Clark Pinnock and Delwin Brown; "Liberals & Other Born-Again Christians: Many Minds, One Heart," by Sally Geis; "The Good Book: Reading the Bible with Heart and Mind," by Peter Gomes.

For those who are currently reconsidering their theological commitments, I recommend exploring: "Good Goats: Healing Our Image of God," Dennis Linn; "The God We Never Knew: Beyond Dogmatic Religion to a More Contemporary Faith," Marcus Borg; "God of the Possible: A Biblical Introduction to the Open View of God," Gregory Boyd; "Most Moved Mover: A Theology of God's Opneness," Clark Pinnock; "The Powers That Be: Theology for a New Millennium," Walter Wink; and "Grace & Responsibility: A Wesleyan Theology for Today," John Cobb, Jr.

Rating:
Summary: Invaluable Insights from a Baptist Insider!
Review: Authored by a former prominent Southern Baptist pastor and professor who was once deemed a "rising star" in that denomination, this book provides the wisdom, insights and learnings of a veteran pastor who is now able to reflect back upon the experiences of his truly dynamic career.

This work offers the general public insights into our nation's largest Protestant denomination that only a well positioned insider could possibly have discerned. I read Killinger's book over the course of only two days. It is very well written and truly compelling - you can't wait to read what he has to say next!

The work is somewhat similar to that of Bruce Bawer's "Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity" as well as to the popular "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism" by John Shelby Spong, but is more balanced, less dense, and much less strident in tone than the others.

I am tempted to assert that Killinger, in a few places, may have "overstated" or "overly generalized" in his remarks about the ways and practices of the Southern Baptist Convention, but it could well be that he isn't. If not, then this work shines a truly needed exposing light upon the denomination that is most represented in our current U.S. Congress - and that currently has "the keys to the kingdom" of current U.S. foreign and domestic policy.

In this United Methodist pastor's opinion, this work ought to be required reading in all mainline seminaries and I highly recommend it for adult Sunday School or church book club discussions.

Other books of a similar nature include: "Theological Crossfire: An Evangelical/Liberal Dialogue" by Clark Pinnock and Delwin Brown; "Liberals & Other Born-Again Christians: Many Minds, One Heart," by Sally Geis; "The Good Book: Reading the Bible with Heart and Mind," by Peter Gomes.

For those who are currently reconsidering their theological commitments, I recommend exploring: "Good Goats: Healing Our Image of God," Dennis Linn; "The God We Never Knew: Beyond Dogmatic Religion to a More Contemporary Faith," Marcus Borg; "God of the Possible: A Biblical Introduction to the Open View of God," Gregory Boyd; "Most Moved Mover: A Theology of God's Opneness," Clark Pinnock; "The Powers That Be: Theology for a New Millennium," Walter Wink; and "Grace & Responsibility: A Wesleyan Theology for Today," John Cobb, Jr.

Rating:
Summary: A Rehash of the Descent to the Abyss
Review: For the pastor before me who wrote the review. Thank you very much. You saved me a dollar or two that is better spent elsewhere. Having studied the issues of the declension, ideologically and biblically, of the northern Presbyterian and northern Baptist churchs, 1880-1910, as soon as you mentioned the denial of authority, inspiration and infallibility of the Word of God, I knew the rest of points 2-10 would develop. I stand in the old Princeton tradition of Warfield, Machen, Van Til and others. So, hardly do I need to read the sniffling of some bitter, disenfranchised moderate to liberal Baptist. To my surprise, liberalism was enormously advanced by Baptists, e.g. Harry Emerson Fosdick, among others. However, Fosdick gave great credence to Machen's views in Christianity & Liberalism, granting and acknowledging in a seminary class that if one followed Machen's presuppositions, one had to end up in classical Christian positions. Nuff said, there is more.

Did the fellow end up chiding classicists such as ourselves as backwoods prophets? Niave, ill-educated, etc.? All the standard non-sense of psychological intimidation, as if conservatives haven't and don't read?

Here to tell ya, having worked in the liberal world, in their churches, with their clergy....the illiteracy, greasy existentialism and putative rationalism which threw out revelation has resulted in confusion, uncertainty, lack of conviction, no missions, no evangelism, and ignorance in the pew.

Thank you my southern Baptist pastor friend. From an Anglican brother in Christ who holds to biblical inerrancy, thanks. You saved me a buck or two. Phil

Rating:
Summary: A Rehash of the Descent to the Abyss
Review: For the pastor before me who wrote the review. Thank you very much. You saved me a dollar or two that is better spent elsewhere. Having studied the issues of the declension, ideologically and biblically, of the northern Presbyterian and northern Baptist churchs, 1880-1910, as soon as you mentioned the denial of authority, inspiration and infallibility of the Word of God, I knew the rest of points 2-10 would develop. I stand in the old Princeton tradition of Warfield, Machen, Van Til and others. So, hardly do I need to read the sniffling of some bitter, disenfranchised moderate to liberal Baptist. To my surprise, liberalism was enormously advanced by Baptists, e.g. Harry Emerson Fosdick, among others. However, Fosdick gave great credence to Machen's views in Christianity & Liberalism, granting and acknowledging in a seminary class that if one followed Machen's presuppositions, one had to end up in classical Christian positions. Nuff said, there is more.

Did the fellow end up chiding classicists such as ourselves as backwoods prophets? Niave, ill-educated, etc.? All the standard non-sense of psychological intimidation, as if conservatives haven't and don't read?

Here to tell ya, having worked in the liberal world, in their churches, with their clergy....the illiteracy, greasy existentialism and putative rationalism which threw out revelation has resulted in confusion, uncertainty, lack of conviction, no missions, no evangelism, and ignorance in the pew.

Thank you my southern Baptist pastor friend. From an Anglican brother in Christ who holds to biblical inerrancy, thanks. You saved me a buck or two. Phil

Rating:
Summary: Nothing new here
Review: I admit at the outset that I am not the kind of person who would be considered a candidate to read this book. I am a theological conservative, reared in the conservative tradition, educated in a Southern Baptist university and seminary. I pastor a conservative church. But I was intrigued by the title and purchased the book, believing that it might give me better insight into how conservatives are viewed and better prepare me for dialogue with a culture that increasingly rejects conservative theology and its emphasis on absolutes.

The theology I encountered in the book did not surprise me. The first "wrong" teaching discussed is, obviously, that the bible is the literal, inerrant word of God. As Killinger admits on p, 195, this teaching must be thrown out in order to reach the rest of the conclusions he advances in the book (i.e. that Christ isn't the only way to God, that science is truer that faith, etc...). The conclusions he reaches are basic to liberal theology and I expected to find them in the book and for "Ten Things" to be an advocate for them.

The worldview of the book did not surprise me. Killinger is a product of a worldview that is open to everything except absolutes. And when absolutes are expressed, those expressing them are viewed as unsophisticated, inarticulate, and unthinking...even dangerous. In short, they are attacked. The incongruity of the mindset that pervades our culture and this book, a mindset that says "we are all free to believe what we want to believe...unless you are a conservative" seems lost on Killinger. In the same paragraph where he derides "fundamentalists' exclusivity and condemnation of others" he classifies conservatives as terrorists. Does this sound like a man who wants to preserve the right of conservatives to believe what they wish?

What did surprise me was the hostile tone of the book. One review on this site says that the book is "much less strident in tone" than other books of the same persuasion. It is part of the reason I purchased it. Yet in this book, Killinger's childhood church and its leaders (people for whom he claims to have great respect) are mentioned by name and classified in ways that border on slander. And in the one instance in the book where he does try to shield the identity of one couple, they are described in such detail that the shield is lifted. And can anything be more strident them calling Billy Graham a terrorist (see p. 20 and p. 181)?

So in essence, this book becomes a vent for the bitterness of a bitter man, bitter from a lifelong war with those opposed to his liberal views. It is written with an intellectual arrogance that is only thinly veiled with false humility, reminding me of a quote from Dallas Willard (an intellectual of the first rank) in "The Divine Conspiracy" that intellectuals "especially take pride in being humble about their minds." (p. 103). It offers nothing new or helpful to the debate between conservatives and liberals. If he only believed that Jesus did die for our sins, perhaps he could be delivered from the hurt he has chosen to build his identity around, as this book seems to indicate he has.

Rating:
Summary: Nothing new here
Review: I admit at the outset that I am not the kind of person who would be considered a candidate to read this book. I am a theological conservative, reared in the conservative tradition, educated in a Southern Baptist university and seminary. I pastor a conservative church. But I was intrigued by the title and purchased the book, believing that it might give me better insight into how conservatives are viewed and better prepare me for dialogue with a culture that increasingly rejects conservative theology and its emphasis on absolutes.

The theology I encountered in the book did not surprise me. The first "wrong" teaching discussed is, obviously, that the bible is the literal, inerrant word of God. As Killinger admits on p, 195, this teaching must be thrown out in order to reach the rest of the conclusions he advances in the book (i.e. that Christ isn't the only way to God, that science is truer that faith, etc...). The conclusions he reaches are basic to liberal theology and I expected to find them in the book and for "Ten Things" to be an advocate for them.

The worldview of the book did not surprise me. Killinger is a product of a worldview that is open to everything except absolutes. And when absolutes are expressed, those expressing them are viewed as unsophisticated, inarticulate, and unthinking...even dangerous. In short, they are attacked. The incongruity of the mindset that pervades our culture and this book, a mindset that says "we are all free to believe what we want to believe...unless you are a conservative" seems lost on Killinger. In the same paragraph where he derides "fundamentalists' exclusivity and condemnation of others" he classifies conservatives as terrorists. Does this sound like a man who wants to preserve the right of conservatives to believe what they wish?

What did surprise me was the hostile tone of the book. One review on this site says that the book is "much less strident in tone" than other books of the same persuasion. It is part of the reason I purchased it. Yet in this book, Killinger's childhood church and its leaders (people for whom he claims to have great respect) are mentioned by name and classified in ways that border on slander. And in the one instance in the book where he does try to shield the identity of one couple, they are described in such detail that the shield is lifted. And can anything be more strident them calling Billy Graham a terrorist (see p. 20 and p. 181)?

So in essence, this book becomes a vent for the bitterness of a bitter man, bitter from a lifelong war with those opposed to his liberal views. It is written with an intellectual arrogance that is only thinly veiled with false humility, reminding me of a quote from Dallas Willard (an intellectual of the first rank) in "The Divine Conspiracy" that intellectuals "especially take pride in being humble about their minds." (p. 103). It offers nothing new or helpful to the debate between conservatives and liberals. If he only believed that Jesus did die for our sins, perhaps he could be delivered from the hurt he has chosen to build his identity around, as this book seems to indicate he has.

Rating:
Summary: I Recommend The Network For Progressive Christianity:) !
Review: If you are a Christian who believes that Jesus is there relm to God but can not stomac The Fundamental church's sexisms and their "We ARE saved! And everyone who disagrees with US is NOT!" Mentality then I would highly recommend The Network For Progressive Christianity. www.tcpc.org/

Also www.MySpace.com has many Progressive Christianian communities.