Rating: 
Summary: tripe
Review: if this were written by a teenager it might be charning and occasionally inspiring. but for it to be presented with any pretense of seriousness (and it certainly is) by a scholar in his sixties is an example of a failure of academic learning. a luddite in bourgois' clothing (apologies to Ludd, some of whose writing reflects considerable himility).flawed from its basic premises (is "tribalism" inherently un-"civilized"? is civilization inherently heirarchial? does this man even consider the burdens of democracy or egalitarianism within a high population on a small planet?), this plea for thoughtless self-indulgence (cloaked in high ideals and arbitrary morality) amounts to a grand assertion of thoughtless bigotry. if the author had limited himself to his few cogent suggestions, it would be a worthwhile read. by presuming to present a soltuion for all global social challenges, it merely perpetuates the cycle of history it claims to defy. this is childish fantasy presented as enlightened wisdom. in the author's defence, his gall doesn't exceed that of most of the other social utopian writers of this or any day. disgusting. an excellent example of ignorance and faulty reasoning.
Rating: 
Summary: Unsubstantiated and Disconnected Ideas Only
Review: Daniel Quinn certainly deserves praise as a progressive thinker, and even as a visionary. But that doesn't automatically mean that his ideas are successful or plausible, as you can see in this book. Like some of Quinn's other works, this is just a collection of vignettes, each taking up one page or less in rather large print, and becomes merely a list of fragmented ideas with little substance. Granted, he does have some great observations on homelessness and people who can't fit into the system. Quinn's overall philosophy is indeed a necessary one, in that there are better alternatives to the current human civilization. But this idea has been presented much more strongly by other authors in the so-called "Post-Civilization" movement, such as John Zerzan. In this book Quinn tends to make grand generalizations into historical episodes that he evidently has not researched fully, such as Mesoamerican cultures "choosing" to abandon civilized living. He often uses his previous fictional works as evidence for his theories, and is irritatingly prone to the "strawman" method - creating fictitious quotes or arguments that he can then shoot down with his thesis. When it comes to the grand concept of improvements to modern structured civilization, the only examples he can come up with are traveling circuses and his own community newspaper. The problem here is, neither of these were made up of people who were forced to make a modern living in a system from which they could not extricate themselves. This flimsy, unsubstantial book has some good ideas, but for better solutions (make that any solutions) to the problems it complains about, you are advised to look elsewhere.
Rating: 
Summary: A Great Way to Begin.
Review: "Beyond Civilisation" is a fantastic book to add to the "Ishmael" trilogy. Non-fiction - a conglomerate of the concepts and ideas put forth in "Ishmael", "The Story of B", and "My Ishmael", with new examples. When I picked it up, I was expecting more of a how-to book, but that never appeared (Quinn would never make it that easy for us). Instead, he gives examples of the new tribalism and what tribes actually are (and are not). Taking this route through life is most definately not the easy way - there is still work to do - and requires no small amount of that human creativity Ishmael was so sure of. The first step in any journey is education combined with new ideas, and it looks as if Quinn has taken it...and people are following. For all its good points, I felt as though there was something in "Beyond Civilsation" that left me wanting, though I couldn't for the life of me tell what it was. I felt like it couldn't possibly be that simple - that there must be a flaw in his logic somewhere that I can sense but can't find evidence of. All the same, a great addition to his quest books.
Rating: 
Summary: True to the Vision
Review: This is the best review that you'll ever read. Ever. Therefore don't even waste your time reading any other reviews. This [if I was serious] would very likely be a lie, but would certainly be really, really arrogant. Quinn argues that our culture, however, makes use of exactly this same sort of single-minded self-indulgence [i.e. a collection of "lethal memes"] to perpetuate itself, and simultaneously propel itself down a self-destructive path along which it has been heading for the last several thousand years [a very short period in human history]. Complicating matters further, the culture of which he speaks is not the typical high-level variety based on race, ethnicity, or national origin; instead, it is a single culture-the "culture of maximum harm"-that is in turn built on the spoils of pervasive agriculture. And finally, We identify ourselves so closely with our Culture that it can be extremely challenging to get perspective on it. A decade or so after having found Ishmael, I still find Quinn's view very compelling. This, though, does not suggest that I always find that message delivered perfectly, as my experience with Beyond Civilization proved recently. A week ago, I actually finished my second reading of BC, the first having been three years ago, when I initially purchased it. The strange thing is, I didn't remember reading it before picking it up this time [I was reminded by some margin notes I had written during my first time through] and even then, I remembered little of the book. I chalk this up to several things. First, having heard the message for a number of years, I probably coasted over the stuff that sounded familiar. Otoh, that knife cuts both ways: Quinn employs a style that is repetitious, and occasionally veers towards pedantic. His tone at other times is tinged with a slightly dismissive, condescending quality. And while these criticisms apply to his earlier works as well, a second problem-unique to BC-was a significant departure in style from the books of the "Gorilla Trilogy" [Ishmael, The Story of B, and My Ishmael] that made for a somewhat less "readable" book. For me then, BC was thus quite literally forgettable the first time around. That said, why would I suggest *anyone* want to read any of these books? Except for BC, the answer, in my opinion, is that the analysis contained in these books is the single sharpest and most accurate account of how We got Here. BC, as a rereading has shown me, is different. It too is valuable, but its contribution is found in beginning to explore how to deconstruct the "culture of maximum harm". For me the book really begins about half way through, where Quinn clearly frames the problem of just why the change for something better has been so difficult, even [especially??] for those who seemingly most want it. He thus masterfully observes: French philosopher Simone Weil disagreed with Marx, saying that revolution, not religion, is the opium of the masses. Shame on them both for not understanding their drugs better. Religion is a barbiturate, dulling the pain and putting you to sleep. Revolution is an amphetamine, revving you up and making you feel powerful. He finishes with something of an admonition, "When people have nothing else going for them, they'll grab either one-or both. Neither drug is going away. Far from it." (p. 77) So much, apparently, for the Wars on drugs and terrorism. Quinn then describes applying the vision of "beyond civilization" to the War on poverty. To begin, he discusses truly working with the homeless [i.e. as equals, as opposed to the hostile manner in which homeless people are most frequently addressed]. The material is interesting and relevant, but the discussion doesn't stop there. Quinn, in another apt twist on the theme of poverty, develops the notion of a "tribal business" in the face of the impoverished wage-earner. As he says, it's not a critique designed for the top money-makers and those truly satisfied helping them gain or maintain that wealth. Without going into further detail, I will submit that Quinn's suggestions have the potential to be a better way to work for many, and is practicable right now. So, fwiw, I have a few recommendations. Finish the Gorilla Trilogy in the order published [or at least get through Ishmael] as prerequisite reading. When you dig into Beyond Civilization, [should the need arise] brush off annoyances that you might find distract from the message. That is to say, feel free to ignore the writing style, the sometimes oddball vehicles Quinn uses to get his points across, or even the personality of the author himself [if necessary]. When you're finished, Beyond Civilization still might not be the most brilliantly written work you've ever encountered, but I honestly can't imagine one more sincere, immediate, accurate, and necessary. [Oh, and one last caveat: you might have to read it twice!! ;-)]
Rating:
Summary: A Beautiful Begining
Review: After I finished this book (an hour ago) I looked in the mirrior, and said, "you CAN do somthing after all". A joy to read, I'd recomend it to anyone.
Rating:
Summary: How to be a Leaver in a Taker society
Review: This book is a survival guide for the urbanite. I see a few reviews on Amazon that claim they were disappointed in the book. This book is not Ishmael or Story of B. You can view those two works (as well as My Ishmael) as books that lay the groundwork for this book. Those books will change your cultural vision from its current state to one that works better. That is why they are so mind-bending. This book is the next step. It doesn't blow you away like it's forerunners. Instead, it says "Now that I've blown you away, here are some ideas of what that means for your life and the way we organize ourselves."
Rating:
Summary: Run away and join a tribe---
Review: Mr. Quinn would have liked my brother-in-law. Fifty years ago he often told us of his idea of the "good life"---a tarpaper shack in the woods, where he could hunt, fish and grow his own vegetables in a small garden. My sister didn't agree, but they did test the concept for awhile by renting a small run-down farm, and living with their three small children in a style much like his dream. It didn't work out, and they soon abandoned the experiment. Decades later, he was voted the best-liked business man in our small town! BC advocates a "New Tribal Revolution," in which disaffected members of civilization are urged to walk away from it, as ancients sometimes did, e. g., the Mayans and the Anasazi, who vanished without a trace leaving ruins and other evidence of fairly advanced civilizations. The tribal life succeeded for humans for three million years, but according to Quinn, the present "hierarchical" civilization is failing after a mere ten thousand years. He works hard to convince us that a return to tribal life would be a step "beyond," NOT a return to the past. Mr. Quinn admires the circus as an example of the tribal way of "making a living." (He is always careful to never say "EARNING" a living!) About a third of his book is devoted to extolling circus life, and he writes approvingly of youngsters who have run off to join the circus as something he apparently believes we ALL secretly yearn to do. The homeless are also admired by Mr. Quinn, and he makes a convincing argument that many of them PREFER their life style, although they may originally have been forced into it. His defense of homelessness as a legitimate lifestyle choice that should be supported, if not encouraged, by public policy is far less convincing! With admitted difficulty Quinn offers a few examples of what he has in mind, some successful, some unsuccessful. NONE of them had the slightest appeal to me as an alternative to my life as an enthusiastic participant in our extraordinarily successful culture. The fundamental problem is that the essentials of life---food, clothing and shelter----can now be amply provided for ALL by perhaps ten percent of the population, as a result of our agricultural technology!! But what is to be done by the other ninety percent that will give them a feeling of usefulness and satisfaction with their lives? The answer in our culture is to produce and sell a wide range of goods and services that most of us find useful and enjoyable, but are regarded by some as non-essential if not downright silly. And we take pretty good care of those who can't or won't participate. It works exceedingly well for most of us, but unfortunately it is putting strain on earth's resources, and would ultimately become unsustainable. Writers like Quinn believe that we are approaching a major ecological calamity unless there is a major reformation, on the order of magnitude of the Renaissance. The point is refuted in "The Skeptical Environmentalist," by Bjorn Lomborg, a book that aroused angry commentary by the environmental science prophets of doom. Quinn, however, treats the coming environmental collapse as revealed truth, but offers no evidence. The reader gets the impression that his primary source of "facts" is his prior three books, to which he makes frequent reference. Reading "Beyond Civilization," I was reminded of Ayn Rand's epic novel, "Atlas Shrugged." Ms. Rand also foresaw imminent collapse of civilization for entirely different reasons, and saw it averted by the same sort of "walking away" from the prevailing culture---except in her novel it was the creative, productive folks who walked away. For Quinn, those who he suggests have walked away, or soon will, are those who want to spend their days strumming a guitar or performing in a circus, rather than accepting the "drudgery" of working for wages
(---to "build pyramids," as he puts it). I would be FAR more likely to walk away with Ms. Rand's group!! (Interestingly, Ms. Rand's term for unproductive work was "monument building!") Quinn is given to sweeping generalizations about our culture. Here's one small example: "---most people involved in conventional businesses are there for a wage, PERIOD." (Emphasis added). That's not my experience---now retired, I thoroughly enjoyed my years at work and so did most of those I worked with, making our small but rewarding contribution to the electronics revolution (certainly NOT pyramid building !!!!). ... I feel sorry for those who work at boring drudgery----but anyone with that problem can find enjoyable work if they try, as I did---and presumably Quinn as well! And if it involves walking away and joining a productive tribe, that's OK, too, for those who want that life!! It says a lot about our culture that a book like this gets taken seriously---but then we are constantly subjected to the Litany of impending doom and gloom. Environmental concerns are certainly legitimate, but they will continue to be dealt with in plenty of time to avert disaster------but through TECHNOLOGY---- NOT through sociology----and certainly not through politics!! Population growth will continue to diminish, as it is already in every developed society, to peak at around a sustainable 10-12 billion (see Lomborg). I don't think Quinn's ideas are anywhere near the right answer---but he deserves high marks for thinking WAY outside the box, and for a thought-provoking book!! For that, I give it four stars.
Rating:
Summary: Moving Beyond Civilization: 401
Review: If you have not read anything by Quinn yet, make sure to start with Ishmael or The Story of B (Moving Beyond Civilization 101 and 201, respectively). Although novels, they will introduce you to the historical and philosophical background you need to fully appreciate this book. If you are a Quinn fan already, this is a wonderful little addition to the curriculum (one dare not say catechism) that will take you deeper into the intricacy of his tribal vision. Here, we come a little closer to conceptualizing what tribalism actually means in pragmatic terms as it relates to the modern context. Today, we are caught up in an economic system that spawns all kinds of problems: starvation, war, poverty, work-related stress, environmental destruction and so on. Trapped in the confines of global economic corporatism, we must ask, Could it be that the fundamental design of society (large nation-states and even larger multinational corporations, huge divisions of wage labor brochered with a monetary medium, etc.) are not conducive to the Good Life? And if not, how do we get there? How do create unique and beautiful societies without inequality, hunger, insecurity and want? Although I don't think Quinn fully answers the question here (who could?), the book will get you thinking along new lines, and asking some really rich, powerful and liberating questions. Quinn beckens us to ponder the fundamental tension of modern life: namely, how it is that we shall come together to eat, live, and work. With this book, we advance another step toward solving the Riddle of the Sphinx. A pleasurable if quick read that is sure to please. Bring your thinking cap. "You don't have to 'go somewhere' to get beyond civilization. You have to make your living a different way." ~A glObal Top 10 Bedtime Snack~
Rating:
Summary: Direwctions for a better way of life
Review: This is a book that I can honestly say changed my life. Daniel Quinn has successfully outlined how mankind has gone wrong and offers some interesting views on a better way of life. What I liked is that it made me think and after finishing this wonderful book I was left asking myself many questions that I hadn't touched on before and made me look at the world in a totally different way.
Rating:
Summary: There seem to always be people who "don't get it"...
Review: The reviews I have read here that seemed negative in some fashion were mostly coming from people who just don't get it. It doesn't matter how you present it to them they [for one reason or another] just don't want to believe what is really going on in the world around them, or even try to understand it. So they dismiss the ideas in this book as "idealizing" or twist Quinn's ideas into something else entirely [because they don't want to believe them]. If you are someone who is concerned with the human future, and even more simply just your future, then this is a great book and fantastic, easy read. If you are of the mindset that most of what is going on in the world is OK and things will just tend to work themselves out and that we don't really need to do anything, then you might not like this book. It's like what they say about people in recovery...You can only be helped if you WANT to be helped and recognize there is a problem. So...
You will only be interested in saving the world if you admit there is a problem and want to do something about it.
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