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Under the Banner of Heaven : A Story of Violent Faith

Under the Banner of Heaven : A Story of Violent Faith

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Product Info Reviews

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Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Good book about true LDS beliefs
Review: I am an ex-mormon and have been waiting for someone to talk about many of these things. It is amazingly accurate. I love how the orginal teachings and what happened in the early 80's (the main topic of this book) are tied together.

I have been told I can't have children because I left the church, that my mother's death was because she was a non-member and as little as two weeks ago, a morman wife told me she would allow her husband to practice plural marriage as long as she is the most important. (She is NOT a fundamentalist but a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.)

I believe everyone has the right to their own belief system but for Heaven's sake tell the truth about what you believe and this book is true to everything I experienced.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Problems with sources
Review: I've enjoyed both of Krakauers previous bestsellers but have been aware of the controversy and criticism of his sources that always seem to pop up. Under the Banner of Heaven has such problems which seem even more acute to me, myself being a Mormon.

The book is not objective. Krakauer has sought a one-sided history of the church and often relies on faulty folklore and 'historians' who've been questioned for numerous works (ie.. Fawn Brodie whom most Jeffersonian historians discredit). There is also a lack of primary sources when Krakauer discusses Mormon history. He relies on the speculations and biases of others rather than utilizing primary texts and artifacts. I find this very disappointing as a historian.

Finally, as a Mormon woman I'm a bit shocked to see how my role in my church is generalized. I'm a very well educated woman who has attended a very prestigious (and liberal) college. Krakauer states that women in the Mormon Church hold no positions of authority and are passive companions to their spouses. These generalizations are not only utterly untrue of my life but utterly untrue of the lives of other women I know within the church. Women do have positions of authority, many of which surpass that of male authority in the church. It is a great unjustice for Krakauer to state the above generalizations as fact repeatedly throughout the book. Furthermore, the comment that Elizabeth Smart was easy prey due to her beliefs is a terrible leap to make or conclusion to draw. The Mormon church does not dictate individual lives; members have freedom to make whatever choices they make. I know young Mormon girls who are more assertive and driven than others I grew up with or knew/know outside of the church.

Mormons are not weak, rationality-deprived people. As a matter of fact, many are extremely educated, well-rounded, NORMAL individuals. Education has been encouraged for men and women alike since the onset of the church (Brigham Young even encouraged women to become doctors, lawyers, and teachers). You would not know this from reading Krakauer's book.

Finally, I am dismayed that most of the Mainstream Mormonism that is discussed in the book centers around Utah and its Culture. As Krakauer himself stated, the majority of LDS Church membership is outside of Utah. Overall, the book lacked a well-rounded, objective view of both LDS history and current LDS culture, teachings, etc.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Erudite fiction
Review: Utah is a Mormon "reservation". It's early citizens were driven there by a real and violent force. The Mountain Meadows massacre occurred during America's only war declared against a religion. In light of such reality, Krakauer's claim that Mormonism needs to come to terms with it's violent past seems absurd. Only someone who believes that Native Americans are on reservations because they enjoy living there can believe that Mormons, more that Protestants, have a special problem with violence. Just as the mythologized versions of the Battle of the Little Big Horn and the Alamo defined who the real victims were and who the real villains, Krakauer's mythology insinuates that whatever violence Mormons experienced, they simply deserved it.

Book's like Krakauer's stigmatize and socially disenfranchise the Mormon community. To counter the stigma Mormons feel compelled to conform to a higher model of wholesomeness. Mormons are then condemned for being conformists and cardboard cutouts. Writers like Krakauer then discover human frailties beneath this perfect exterior. And the cycle starts all over again. Apparently, few have the honesty to see the paradox of this perennial American prejudice.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Rampant Generalizations and Untenable fallacies.
Review: The type of generalizations made in this piece should be nonexistant in modern society. It is hard to imagine why some one would use people who were expelled from a church for not following the church's beliefs, as primary sources for the beliefs of said church. To any logical person, this should at the veryleast, be questionable, both morally and professionally.
Of the fallicies made in this work, I am apalled. Words taken out of context, unsupported claims, rumors, and blatent falsities, are used to invent a work of graphic fiction. In my opinion and for reason's stated above, this work should be avoided as a waste of time; and were it to appear in a book store should be placed in the fiction section.
Were the author to make similar claims about a more litigous party he could be legal trouble for lible. I am not sure of his motivations, however they appear to be at least leaning towards malice.
Just as with any group, if you want to know more about them talk to someone who actually belongs to the group. For Example, one would not seek information about the green party from a lumberjack's union, or vice versa. Besides the obvious adversarial postions, there is a lack of first hand knowledge.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Challenging the Creationist Approach to Mormon History
Review: The basic issue here is historiography by creation vs. historiography by research.
Krakauer does a superb job of chronicling several schisms in the Mormon church-based on the issue of polygamy-and connecting the pattern of violence associated with LDS "apostate groups" with the origins of the church, particularly with the story of the sword of Laban in the Book of Mormon. Some reviewers from the Mountain West seem to have their heads in the ground regarding an obvious link between the Mountain Meadows Massacre, the activities of Porter Rockwell, and the violence endemic in some of the offshoot groups. They also appear to deal poorly the church's polygamous origins. The book meticulously traces the roots of the Mormon offshoot groups to the incongruity of strong statements regarding the practice of polygamy of back-to-back LDS prophets, John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff.
I was particularly fascinated with Krakauer's account of the fate of the three members who left John Wesley Powell near the end of his historic expedition through the Grand Canyon. I know Wesley Larsen, who discovered documents that suggest that the three may have been murdered by Southern Utah Mormons. Dr. Larsen's version of the men's fate holds water and is consistent with the violence in early Mormonism.
Krakauer is insistent in pointing out that the LDS church bears little resemblance to the early church: today's church is image conscious and tends to lean toward mainstream Christianity. Krakauer illudes to the possibility that today's church may have become what it hates. The early Mormons felt persecuted because of polygamy, and today's Mormons are adamant about making it as tough as possible for the infidel "polygs" (I recall while living in Cedar City, Utah that the LDS church leaders there advised the local membership on several occasions not to do any business with members of the polygamous sect from Colorado City).
Juanita Brooks' book on John D. Lee and the Mountain Meadows Massacre was probably the first treatise that challenged Mormon historiography (but was eventually accepted by LDS scholars). Krakauer's treatise will challenge Mormon apologists who still prefer to create history, rather than to research it.

Rating: 2 stars
Summary: Inaccuracies
Review: How good can this book really be when he has a huge glaring mistake in the book. He placed the murders in Provo when in fact they happened in American Fork. When the murders are the focal point of the book and he can't get the obvious facts straight, what other information can you really trust in here? The general story of the book is that a couple of crazies murdered family members in the name of God and the author claims its because that's what Mormons are taught and it's a violent faith. Every church in the world has had crazy people commit murders and claim that God commanded them to do it. That doesn't mean that those religions teach violence and murder. Does it?

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: The truth is out there--just don't look here
Review: A book so full of errors is a disgrace and should cause the reader to wonder what else the author got wrong. Krakauer doesn't even seem to know who the president of the Mormon Church is--doesn't he have an editor or fact-checker? Every church has a few bad apples, but to implicate an entire church based on the actions of two ex-members (who were excommunicated--obviously the church recognized that they were off their rocker) is pretty sad. Following this logic, each time there is a crime, we should find out what religion the person is and then blame the church in question for their actions--ludicrous and ridiculous.

Krakauer should stick to mountaineering--he doesn't know enough about religion to do the subject justice.

Rating: 3 stars
Summary: Better titled: Into the Fanatical Fringes of Faith
Review: This book is disturbing, troublesome and provocative. Having read Into Thin Air front to back twice without stopping (the only book I ever did that with) and having been a devout Mormon for 35 years (now inactive), I was eager to read the book. Like Thin Air, I couldn't put it down, read it all in one day. So, Krakauer's style and means of unfolding a story are still strong and compelling.

But there is much about this book that troubles: the mixture of facts, quotes from questionable sources, rumors, speculations, and unfounded conclusions leaves a reader who knows the Mormon Church well noting lots of errors in each. Members are likely to be offended, friends of the Church surprised, and those who know little put off by the apparent conclusions of this unfortunate mixture. The central premise that the fanatical fringes of a society are products of that society and therefore condemn that society is a logical leap I am not prepared to make. Having a PHD in human behavior, I believe this premise to be farfetched. The My Lai massacre does not describe most Americans, the 9/11 attack does not describe most Muslims, and the Lafferty killings do not describe most Mormons or former Mormons or even Mormon splinter groups.

That said, there ARE several attempts in the book to deal with major, basic issues of living today that everyone should read and think about, if NOT in the context of the Mormon Church, but in the context of modern society: These seem to me to be the following:

How does one discriminate between one man's inspiration and that of another? (Islam, Christianity, Jewish, Sikh, Hindu, etc.) Who's to say which inspiration is "right?"

What's the role of obedience in a society? What are the consequences of total obedience and its opposite total anarchy? When does one say, I must trust my own insights, not yours no matter how much I esteem your views?

What is the natural coupling behavior of humans? Virtually all the animal and bird species are not monogamous. Clearly, Old Testament prophets were not. Divorce rates today are high. What is the role of marriage in today's society?

How do we define insanity in a religious world? If one hears voices and espouses non-traditional doctrine, and is judged to be crazy, then most zealots would be deemed the same.

What's the role of child abuse on adult behavior? This aspect of the Lafferty killings seemed way underplayed to me in the book. But it's an important issue and process that needs more illucidation in today's world. The book certainly does that.

What's the role of truth telling and honesty in leadership and among powerful privileged? Is there such a thing as sacred secrets and insider privileged behavior? Where's the oversight? Declaring that one answers only to God above the society in which one lives seems too convenient, yet, people all over the world do this.

How should significant others and spouses treat each other? Where's the balance between "she wears the pants" and "he's a dictator?" Many couples might recoil at the descriptions of relationships here yet if examined more closely see the seeds in their own interactions.

How can the nation manage its welfare fund distribution, now about half of the national budget? How can our society provide for defenseless children born without two or two functioning parents without encouraging more of the same behavior? That these communities survived largely on welfare was news to me.

As I said, this book is troublesome, provocative, and disturbing. One could read it as focused on the Mormon Church. I found too many factual errors and conclusions built on shaky data to take the central premise seriously. But I didn't view the book as an attack on Mormonism. Rather, it's an essay on societies in general and explores very powerfully the themes I mentioned above as well as others. For that reason, I think the title should have been (and Krakauer admits he wrestled with the title) "Into the Fanatical Fringes of Faith"--and noted at the end, that he could have written this book about ANY religion or community in the world. He just happened to pick Mormonism. Every community has stories like these--to pick them out and then declare that they represent the mainstream I thought missed the point--namely that every society has to deal with its fringes and some do so better than others. You should read this book, but not as commentary on Mormonism, rather as commentary on your part of the Human Community.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: What A Tale !!
Review: I started this book on a return trip to New Mexico from New Jersey. Unable to put it down even when my eyes were burning from fatigue ! It is expertly written, the prose is crisp. A gripping tale of murder, mayhem, and the kinds of historical deatils that one almost never encounters in traditional textbooks.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Bravura Storytelling
Review: Jon Krakauer displays his unusually fine gifts at storytelling with his latest book, Under the Banner of Heaven. Instead of the usual adventure/outdoors tale, though, this time he tackles violent and passion faith, particularly that of Mormon Fundamentalism. The story veers between true crime (the killing of a mother and daughter by two brothers) and the history and development of a particular and relatively recent religion. The author includes many strands in this net and handles it all smoothly, intelligently and at an exciting pace. It is a gripping book that should shake the reader from complacency. The recent interviews included in the book are often touching or shocking. This book will be controversial but that is simply indicative of its strength. A harrowing, powerful, highly recommended read.


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