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Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church

Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church

List Price: $24.95
Your Price: $15.72
Product Info Reviews

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Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Fascinating book but won't convince true believers
Review: I applaud the courage and tenacity of the author to take on the most pressing and controversial issue Mormonism is facing. Having been raised a Mormon, having served a mission and having served in many callings, I remember looking forward to the day when the scientific evidence would finally come in to show that Joseph Smith didn't just make up the Book of Mormon.

However, all the evidence to date has pointed to native americans descending from people in the far east, not the middle east. Southerton's book does a masterful job of showing just how compelling the evidence is. It also explains what the implications are for the LDS Church and it's members. Southerton leaves the door open for people to believe that the LDS faith is worthwhile and can provide meaning in their lives. However, so many leaders of the church staked the church's divinity on the truth claims of the Book of Mormon, giving in to the scientific evidence would be like George W. Bush proposing the biggest tax increase in history.

For those who might look at the negative reviews, also check out the other reviews written by these reviewers. In particular, their canned testimonies of the Book of Mormon speaks volumes as to their credibility in evaluating Southerton's book. Their mythologies are being attacked by the scary evidence Southerton lays out and their reviews don't speak much about Southerton's book, but about the reviewers themselves.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Science is fallable, too
Review: I suspect many of the conclusions drawn in this work will not stand the test of time. DNA science is a very dynamic field that is developing rapidly. Even in the 15 years since I graduated with a degree in zoology, much of what I learned about genetics is either out of date or proven incomplete or wrong. Indisputable "facts" that I learned in Medical school just a few short years ago have been shown to be wrong. As an analogy, as a medical student I was taught that using beta blockers in a patient with congestive heart failure was absolutely inappropriate and harmful to the patient. To do so would have been malpractice. A few short years later, beta blockers are a staple of treating patients with this disease. What changed? Not the truth, just our understanding of the science.
This book stands as a reasonable attempt to test the claims of the Book of Mormon given very limited science. To make claims that anything definitive or indisputable can be said regarding the Book of Mormon is incorrect.I would suspect that decades from now nobody will remember Simon G. Southerton but millions will still be joining the Mormon Church. I choose to put my faith in God. My faith in science is less devout.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: bad vs. good
Review: I wonder why Mormon writers don't write books bashing other religions or try to prove them wrong? Why do they only write books showing the truth of their beliefs? Oh yeah! God only does good things... it is satan that tries to prove everything wrong. Interesting... and that didn't take any kind of scientific knowledge, just common sense.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Think You'll find God in a Beaker? Think again.
Review: It doesn't take much to stretch this technique to test all religions. Take Christianity for example. If the world is older than 6000 years then the Bible is bogus. Poof - there goes all Christianity and Judiasm. How about the flood that covered the earth? Scientifically impossible - Hmmm... almost all religions have the "flood story" in common. There goes all religions. How about the idea that Adam was the first man? Doesn't hold up to science either. Gee... it seems these are easy pickings.

So why single out the Mormons with a convoluted DNA thing that's much harder to prove, and far less convincing when one considers genetic drift over 2600 years, the scant likelihood of finding eastern genes when they certainly were a minority even if Book Of Mormon authors didn't mention it, and the mere fact that most of the Lamanites and decendants of Hagoth have probably been replaced by other peoples over the last 1500 years (something I've always suspected for dozens of years, which if correct would completely invalidate the authors conclusions)? The fact is that the Lamanites were at least the direct decendants of Laman as much as all mankind (including the American Incan Indians) are the direct decendents of Noah as the Bible attests.

So it seems incredibly silly to stop at this complicated and dubious DNA study targeted at Mormons, when Mainstream Christianity has such easier pickings as noted in my first paragraph. Only a fool would consider this and then conclude that the author was unbiased in his approach

Even so, I'm guessing the author claims to be Christian, as are many mormonism antagonists who use science to "debunk mormonism", and yet they will all mostly refuse to validate Christianity by the same methods. Seems rather hypocritical, no? Or do the say the bible is to be taken figuratively? Then why not the Book of Mormon?

The hypocrisy speaks for itself.

Future would-be debunkers: Don't stop at Mormonism if you're going to pit science against religion. My own personal opinion: science and religion are mutually exclusive and should never be compared (see 1 Cor 2:13-14 for why). You'll never find God in a beaker, but you will on your knees if you're humble and sincere - two attributes that this book and all like it lack in a major way. Matt 7:7-11 and 7:16-20 provide a much better guide for settling spiritual matters than books like this.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Another Nail - But The Lid Is Still Off The Coffin
Review: Mormonism would have disappeared long ago if facts trumped "faith." Case in point - the 1960's discovery that the papyrus that Joseph Smith claimed was written by Father Abraham turned out to be a run-of-the-mill funeral document dating from about the time of Christ.

Southerton's book is very readable. For the non-scientifically inclined it presents a clear discussion of DNA science and how it is used to determine the origin of various populations. The "native American" migrated from Asia. This is not a new theory. DNA has simply provided powerful evidence to support what was previously deduced from the archeological record.

But don't expect Mormons to read this book, let alone believe it. Mormons are constantly warned against non-faith promoting literature. The fact that the author is a former Mormon bishop will simply confirm the pre-conceived notion that
he is a doomed heretic, scarcely worthy of mention.
Mormon apologists are very busy trying to bebunk DNA science as unreliable when it comes to pinpointing the origins of the "Lamanites," the dark skinned evil-doers who eliminated the
"white and delightsome" Nephites in the early fifth century C.E.
These are the same folks who insist that any day now the archeological evidence will be discovered that "proves" the Book of Mormon story. One hundred seventy-five years of failure in this regard does not deter the faithful.

Mormons are Mormons because of family and community pressure, fear of going to hell, guilt, the need for a buffer against the vagaries of life, and other factors which preclude serious investigation of matters that may shake their faith.

The Southerton book should be one of the final nails in the Mormon coffin. However, Mormons continue to be very apt at keeping the undertaker from putting the lid on the box, let alone nailing it down.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: ACTIVE MEMBER RESPONSE
Review: Mr. Southerton's review of current research on the historicity of the Book of Mormon is enlightening and thorough. He also has an excellent review of work of recent LDS apologists while showing how emerging LDS scholarly positions increasingly differ from long-standing member beliefs. The appendences at the end contain detailed DNA results, an official statement from the Smithsonian concerning the Book of Mormon, and a thorough list of LDS related websites - both pro and con.

In the last chapter, Mr. Southerton broaches the subject of members who choose to remain active in the Church while realizing the fact the Book of Mormon is historical fantasy. Unfortunately, his treatment of this important area is all too brief, and it would have been very interesting to have had a full chapter on the subject; for there are many members who enjoy the Church and want to remain active, while realizing the Book of Mormon is historical fiction, not fact.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Simon says..."
Review: Simon says, the book of mormon was a figment of Joseph Smith's imagination. I couldn't agree more....

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Southerton accomplished two tasks...
Review: Southerton took the complex subjects of existing mitochondrial DNA and X and Y chromosomal research and made them readable and even interesting. He then applied this science to the cornerstone of the Mormon religion, the Book of Mormon. Not to spoil the ending, but he effectively demonstrates how Mormonism's claim of "the one true church" is groundless. It was a pleasure to examine the Book of Mormon without the usual convoluted arguments and whitewashing.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: This makes me mad
Review: This is the second book on DNA and human history that I have read recently. The first was Steve Olson's "Mapping Human History: Genes, Race, and Our Common Origins." Both were excellent. I think this book is even a little more understandable, although it certainly takes on a more controversial issue. Having previously read Olson's book, Southerton's book made a lot of sense.

The part that made me mad is that I have been a member of the Mormon Church all of my life and was taught and beleived all of the BS that Southerton refers to in his book regarding Mormon teachings about the origins of natives of Polynesia and the American Hemisphere. I'm mad because my belief in the Church's teachings made a fool out of me for so long. It is actually refreshing to read the truth and get my mind freed up.

The book goes through a very nice developmental section that draws heavily on works of other contemporary authors such as Jerrod Diamond. The scientific data that is presented is very informative, especially the diagrams showing distribution and frequency of mitochondial DNA types. His conclusions are credible and his description of the ridiculous position that the Mormon apologists have had to retreat to in defense of the Book of Mormon is most enlightening and a bit amusing.

I highly recommend this book for those Mormons that are not afraid of learning the truth. For those that want to keep the fantasy that they live by undisturbed, they should avoid this book at all costs.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: ...and dodging the real question and other serious issues...
Review: We don't know what Israelite DNA from Lehi's time looks like
In order to know if ancient Israelite DNA could be found in the ancient New World, we'd have to recognize this DNA. There are at least two problems with this.
First, the initial inclination of most people is that ancient Israelite DNA should be noticeable in current Jewish populations, based on the assumption that the Jews are a race that has remained genetically homogenous since ancient times. The reality, however, is that "Israelite," like Jew,
Mormon, or American, is a cultural rather than biological definition. Other than a few extreme examples, current Jewish populations (from whence samples are drawn for "Israelite DNA") do not necessarily reflect the DNA make-up of ancient Israelite populations. Second, even anciently the Israelites were comprised of various differing cultural backgrounds (each carrying different mtDNA markers from their mothers). By the time Jesus was born, the Jews were an even more genetically diverse group, having intermarried with Canaanites, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks and Romans, as these outsiders conquered Judah. That is even truer today. When populations mix with large populations we have a significant risk of losing the DNA signatures of the smaller population. These markers can disappear for any of the following reasons.

Genetic Bottleneck. This occurs when a significant portion of a population does not reproduce, or at least does not pass on mtDNA (which is only passed on by the mother). If, for example, few Lehite women were born to the Book of Mormon peoples, the Nephites would have married native women and their DNA (not Sariah's DNA) would have passed on to the children. Another cause for a bottleneck is when a large portion of a population dies (often due to war, famine, or disease) and the DNA traits of the surviving group does not accurately represent the diversity of the larger group from which they emerged (such a bottleneck may have occurred when diseases introduced by the Spaniards wiped out millions of native Americans).

Founder Effect. This type of genetic bottleneck happens when a small (founder) group leaves a larger group (as with the Lehites/Mulekites leaving a larger Israelite group). In some of these occurrences, the smaller group contains only a small fraction of the genetic markers of the larger group (which is often the case when a small group is isolated from the larger group). In these instances, the smaller group's DNA signature is significantly different then that of the group's origin. Thus, for the Book of Mormon, the DNA sampling of the Lehites/Mulekites (if we had it) may not accurately reflect the DNA markers of their Israelite heritage.

Genetic Drift. With mtDNA we have a problem with "lucky genes." MtDNA follows a single line of transmission (motherto child), obscuring the fact that founding mothers have many other descendants whose mtDNA may be different. For example, if you go back two generations (to your grandparents), there are four individuals (two parents for each of your parents), two of which are female (grandmothers on both sides). Only one of these grandmothers will have passed on her mtDNA to you, regardless of whether you are male or female. You will not have the mtDNA of one of your grandmothers. If we go back ten generations, you have 1,024 ancestral slots (or number of possible contributors to your genetic makeup - the further we go back the more ancestral slots. The actual number of progenitors - due to coalescence [the intermarrying of relatives - including distant relatives] - is actually lower). Of these, half are female. You will inherit
the mtDNA of only one of these 512 female ancestral slots. Small populations are more susceptible to drift and the smaller the population the faster they drift, and there are (conservatively) at least 70 generations between modern Native Americans and Sariah, and more ancestral slots than there have been people on Earth.
Conclusions
As far as I'm aware, there has never been a scientific DNA study done to test the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. Reports claiming to use DNA to refute the Book of Mormon are based on studies never designed to answer the question of Book of Mormon historicity. We don't know what a "Lehite" gene would have looked like, so we don't know what to look for. It is likely that the Middle Eastern DNA of Lehi's day looked completely different than the "Israelite" DNA available today. Population genetics demonstrate that the DNA signature ofsmall populations can disappear when infused into larger populations. DNA evidence is not incompatible with a belief that the Book of Mormon is an authentic ancient document.
You may also read this at FAIR. Also check out the following books and references:
David Stewart, "DNA and the Book of Mormon,"
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/bom/bom12.html

John L. Sorenson and Matthew Roper, "Before DNA,"
Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 12:1 (2003), 6-23.

Michael F. Whiting, "DNA and the Book of Mormon: A Phylogenetic Perspective," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 12:1 (2003), 24-35.
John M. Butler, "A Few Thoughts From a Believing DNA Scientist," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 12:1 (2003), 36-
37.

Dean H. Leavitt, Jonathan C. Marshall, and Keith A. Crandall, "The Search for the Seed of Lehi: How Defining
Alternative Models Helps in the Interpretation of Genetic
Data," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 36:4 (2003),
133-150.



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