Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption into the Catholic Church

Rating:
Summary: Goodbye Catholic Church
Review: Michael Rose's book, Goodbye Good Men is an eye opening work, one which goes a long way towards explaining many of the problems facing the Catholic Church today. Is it a perfect book with the perfect explanation to the problems our church faces today? No. Of course not. However it goes a long way towards explaining a major part of the problem and even offers a road map to recovery.

Unlike other reviewers, I find Mr. Rose's research quite satisfactory. The author interviewed 125 seminarians from 50 dioceses around the country. The author rarely presents the "other side" of the story, but I don't find this to be a problem. The admitance of homosexual's to the priesthood is inconsistent with church doctrine and therefore indefensible. How can you defend a seminary known as the "Pink Palace"? How can one defend the renting of buses in order to give gay seminarians rides to the gay clubs in Chicago?

-In this book you'll read the story of the seminarian who was raped by a fellow seminarian and then run out of the seminary as if it was he who committed the crime.
-Meet other seminarians who are harrassed, sent to psychological counseling because they are "homophobic", have "behavorial problems" etc...
-You'll discover the seminary in which a book called "Our Sexuality" is the text for course on Human Sexuality. Not a problem except for the fact that the authors "invite the reader to experiment in the various methods of masturbation..." and contains numerous photographs most people would consider pornographic. This is not the sort of text I would expect a seminary to embrace.
-Discover the Liberal Feminist Nuns who are determined to see not only the celebate priesthood become a thing of the past, but are determined to become ordained themselves.
-A seminary instructor who regards the Church's seven sacraments as superfluous
-A professor at a seminary who denies two of the most fundamental doctrines of Catholicism: the ministerial priesthood and the "Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist."

This book may not give a satisfactory explanation as to the abundance of pederast and predatory priests who have been ordained in the last 30-40 years, but it does explain some major problems in the Church. Rome would do well to clean out the seminaries if it is serious about refoming the errant American Church.

Rating:
Summary: Vatican II a Liberal Disaster
Review: Michael Rose exposes the last years 37 years since the close of Vatican II as a liberal disaster for the Roman Church. One example of the disaster is the homosexual scandal now being exposed. The bishops of the U.S. have allowed and encouraged this behavior. Those found guilty should all resign in mass. The National Conference of Catholic Bishops is a forum to undermine the Catholic faith by it's silence on these issues and establishing the liberal agenda that has supposedly passed as Catholicism for the last several decades.

Rating:
Summary: Goodbye Good Men Author
Review: The research Micheal S. Rose has done on this subject appears to be quite thorough. I am not too shocked about what is going on today in the seminaries. Vatican II has initiated a new church, which is certainly not Catholic. I cannot believe that with all the research Mr. Rose has done, that he is so blind as to what is really going on. He states that one day JPII will be a saint. JPII is resposible for the crisis in the Church today. Does Mr. Rose recall JPII making the public statement as to what a great man Matin Luther was. Luther was one of the greatest heretics that ever lived. Did he forget when JPII was in India and put cow dung on his forehead? The poor men who were ordained after Vatican II, don't realize that they are NOT priests, because of the changes to the ordination rites which are not valid.

Rating:
Summary: No depth, no substance
Review: This book does a great disservice to any real dialogue or discussion about the crisis in leadership the Catholic church is facing. It is ultimately a hateful book more interested in creating bogeymen then facing painful issues of hierocracy and faith.

For a well balanced examination of this subject and others facing the Catholic church please read Garry Wills "Papal Sin". Rather than blaming liberals and gays let us look deeply at a church and a leadership that has often been steadfastly unwilling to be honest about much of its history and its doctrine.

Rating:
Summary: Some truth here, maybe
Review: The faults of Michael Rose's book have been well-said by other reviewers.

One might begin by pointing out that Rose describes those that believe as he does as "orthodox," thus clearly implying that those he opposes are a bunch of heretics. However, not even the Pope can properly make that claim. The usage is supremely arrogant.

Then he piles up anecdotes without making much of any effort to give the the other side of the stories. Thus those expelled from seminaries claim that their expulsion was for being "orthodox," but we are left with only their "spin" on the story, for the other side is never quoted. Of course, because of confidentiality concerns, vocations directors and seminary faculty members cannot reveal the official reasons for the expulsion of the men whose stories are told in this book. But the fact that the stories are told only from one side makes it impossible to discern just how true they are.

Furthermore, the stories exist without the necessary numbers. Rose's thesis is that the Catholic Church's priest shortage is due to large numbers of "orthodox" seminarians being turned away for thirty years. But without seeing the numbers -- just how many men inquired of various dioceses and religious orders, how many actually applied, how many were accepted, how many discouraged, how many outright refused -- it is impossible to judge if Rose's thesis is true. There are thousands of priests in the U.S., and thousands more are needed. Even if every anecdote presented by Rose was absolutely true and accurate, the number of people involved would not make the slightest dent in the priests shortage if all had been ordained. For this book to be truly reliable as an argument for the cause of the priest shortage, it simply has to have those numbers it does not give.

Rose further seems to imply that the current clergy molestation scandals are rooted in the alleged homosexual subculture of the seminaries in the 1970's and 1980's. Judging from the reviews on this website, many certainly infer that from the book. However, in my own Diocese, nearly all of the diocesan priests who have been convicted, or even just accused, of molestation were raised under the old (pre-Vatican II) system. Most were ordained before 1970, and every one I personally know of is older than I am -- and I am 49. Whatever its roots, the molestation scandal does not begin with homosexuals taking over seminaries in 1980. Rose has to know this, and in the current situation it is dishonest that he does not make that point clearly in his book.

I myself attended a seminary considered quite "liberal" around 1980. Yes, there were gays there, but as a heterosexual I was certainly neither propositioned nor persecuted by other students. There may have been gays on ther faculty, but if they formed a "lavender mafia" that expelled people who opposed the gay agenda, they did it in a very hidden fashion. I myself had some difficulties getting through to ordination, but if that happened because of my opposition to the gay agenda, the "mafia" hid that from me very well. On the other hand, I know of a student who was expelled precisely because he was homosexually active, according to rumors I heard. And one time the rector "reamed out" the whole student body because some of them were attending a gay bar on occasion. This is hardly the picture presented by Rose's book.

Nonetheless, I believe that this is an important book. When a new (and more conservative) bishop becomes ordinary in a diocese, it is typical that the number of ordinations suddenly spikes upward. Are conservative candidates being kept out by liberal vocation directors? There is some evidence for that, and that point certainly supports Rose's thesis.

More importantly, Rose's book is important because hopefully it will force more of the truth out into the open. If some seminaries are as bad as Rose says, it will now be much harder for them to continue as they are. Hopefully, the notoriety generated by this book will force bishops, vocation directors, and seminaries to come out with the numbers needed to judge if Rose is right. And if he is, once the truth is out in the open, it will become impossible for the suppression of vocations alleged by Rose to continue.

For these reasons I believe that this book is an absolute must-read for those who are concerned about the Catholic Church in the United States. The book has many serious flaws. But it seemingly has some truth in it, and hopefully it will force more truth out into the open. It is an important book, and should be read.

Rating:
Summary: Eye-Opening!...
Review: I've grew up in the Catholic Church and have worked in parishes and Catholic organizations for many years and had come up with my own conclusions about the so-called vocations crisis, but now with Mr. Rose's book I have the hard facts to back it up. Even though I'd guessed that something similar to what's described in the book was at work, I had no idea as to the extent of the deceit, nay, the conspiracy that is involved. Anyone who loves the Catholic Church and is concerned about the state of Christianity in the 21st century should read this book and then fall on their knees and begin to pray.

Rating:
Summary: semper fidelis?
Review: The first chapter opens with a Bishop explaining that the present crisis of a Priest shortage is a man made desire to abolish the traditional celibate all male Priesthood. Therefore, all men who are orthodox and stick to the official teachings of the Church are actually screened out by those in a position of power and influence in the deciding of who goes to seminary and who does not. Many of these vocations teams are led by liberal nuns who seek to bring about change from within.

Chapter Two concentrates on instances of outright dissent and contempt of many "mid-level" church officials, ordained and lay, that "screen" out potential candidates to the Priesthood who they fear may be too "rigid" and "immature" sexually because they do not support the ordination of women and they support the Church's views about homosexuality.

Chapter Three outlines the "The Gatekeeper Phenomenon". This pertains mainly to the teams of formation directors and Psychoanalysts employed by many Dioceses to ferret out abnormal behaviors and attitudes that may be detrimental to being a pastor of souls. Interestingly enough, many of the psychiatrists and psychologists are not supportive of church teachings and even label some candidates as "dysfunctional" and "immature" for holding on to traditional Church teachings.

Chapter Four addresses the Gay Subculture within the Clergy, Seminaries, and colleges. This chapter I found morally repulsive. If just 10% of the stories related are true, wow. What a sick and disgusting situation some of these seminaries face. It definitely reveals a homosexual agenda being promoted within the church. By those who are responsible for nurturing and forming new Priests. Absolutely incredible.

Chapter Five discusses Heterodoxy. This actually appears to me to be more dangerous than the homosexual problem as the gay subculture is just one part of the larger problem of dissent among our own.

Chapter Eleven goes back to explain more how the "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy" of the death of the Male Celibate Priesthood actually created an Artificial Priest Shortage.

The final Chapter Thirteen is perhaps the best for me because by the time I got to it I was exhausted from anguish. But, this chapter gives us hope that the ills of the past have been identified and certain remedies are in place, if not altogether accepted and implemented by all Dioceses in the United States.

Rating:
Summary: Trash, Lies & Stupidity
Review: The author blames all problems of the Catholic church on gays. If you buy this concept, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell to you.

The author conveniently manages to neglect to mention that only .03% of all child molestations are by gay men. That leaves 99.7% by heterosexual men. Instead of wasting his time trying to make gays into the scapegoat for the irresponsibility of the Catholic church (which still treats gays as fourth class citizens, by the way), the author should be writing a book about all the horrors which the church has caused for gays Catholics and their families. But evidently the Inquisition has begun again, and this time the Ultimate Scapegoat is gays. Not one word is said about the countless Protestant ministers caught molesting young girls ..., and not one word is said about the great good done by those priests who are gay. Perhaps the author never heard of Father Mychal Judge, one of the heroes of September 11.

Buy this book so you can have a copy of the most absurb and preposterous piece of garbage and hate printed since the days of Adolf Hitler...

Rating:
Summary: Almost outstanding...
Review: The facts, interviews and figures recorded by Mr. Rose in this text stand on their own. To those who know the Catholic Church has seen massive infiltration by Judeo Masonic forces from the top down, this book will only surprise at how far down the rot is now extending.

His conclusions seem to rely on the "New Springtime" and "Civilization of Love" offered by Vatican II. This is faulty if we are to believe our own senses which indicate that we are in the dead of winter, not a "new springtime."

Rating:
Summary: Fait Accompli for the Pope (Demand for Married Priests)
Review: Michael S. Rose wrote a highly detailed, investigated expose on the liberal bishops who are attempting to ram a married priesthood through the Vatican. The result has been an invasion of homosexual priests who molest young boys in America and the shortage of priests with genuine vocations.

Proof is the scandal lies in the shortfall of seminarians in the more liberal dioceses and the overflowing seminaries in the traditional dioceses of Denver, CO, Lincon, NE, and Northern, VA mentioned in the book.

I have attended several masses in the Northern, VA diocese at Mary, Queen of the Apostles in Alexandria, VA, Saint Elizabeth Seton in Woodbridge, VA and another church in Stafford, VA. Those priests were tremendous. They speak the truth of the gospel, not the water downed Christianity of other dioceses.

Other proof are comments from my local priest who said it was true in his seminary in Florida.

Also a friend who trained to become a priest in the North American seminary in Rome. He refused an advance by a homosexual seminarian. By the way, my friend was not rejected by the seminary holding a bent against it. He realized that he did not have a true vocation and left this seminary after studying there for several years.

Another proof is a priest friend who went to the "Pink Palace," Saint Mary's in Baltimore, the first seminary in the United States. He is very angry what went on there.

It's so good to find and listen to the homilies of young priests who are traditional and speak about the saints at Mass. These younger priests, who are loyal to the Pope, scare the dickens out of some of the older priests who hate and despise Pope John Paul II.

We really ought to pray for the liberal priests. When one learns their their life's work is based on a lie, it causes tremendous psychological suffering. University professors suffered terribly when communism self-destructed between 89 and 91.

Bottom Line: It's pretty bad, when the leaders of the Boy Scouts of America are more intelligent about the realities of putting homosexuals in leadership positions than many Catholic Bishops of American. Putting a homosexual priest in a parish is like putting a kid in the candy store. Homosexuals should not become priests anymore than they should become boy scout leaders.

I look forward to God sending his blessings on the Church just like He did with Saint Catherine of Sienna in the 13th Century to clean up the Church. It's about to happen. When one hits rock bottom, the upward climb is about to begin. I hope that we have finally hit rock bottom and are about to rise out of this morass.