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Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea : Why the Greeks Matter

Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea : Why the Greeks Matter

List Price: $25.95
Your Price: $17.13
Product Info Reviews

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Rating: 3 stars
Summary: A thesaurus of terms and theories
Review: A rollicking journey through time and culture. Cahill follows the taproot of Western Civilization from today through the Enlightenment to ancient Greece. The tree is comprised of branches on how to make war, what is valuable in literature, the arts, philosophy and religion. It was the Greeks, through Enlightenment thinkers, who provided the seeds of American democratic ideals. Cahill's irreverent prose, hopefully shocking to some, reads like a sophomoric rebellion against his Jesuit mentors. Sex plays a major role in nearly every aspect of Greek society [and what's novel about that?] and Cahill delves into it with gusto. Even here, the Greeks seem to have shown more restraint than Cahill.

Cahill is always a challenging and invigorating read. He holds your attention through dazzling prose and iconoclastic concepts. By dividing the book conceptually instead of simply chronologically, you are given time to pause and reflect on his ideas. For a man relating history, Cahill projects unrelaistic modern values to ancient times. He deems the Greeks "classicist, racist and sexist". Yet these modern terms would puzzle any Greek of the period. He extols their intellectual accomplishments without inquiring how the leisure time to pursue these hobbies was achieved. Slavery was the labour-saving device of the day. No-one then challenged its existence, why does Cahill do so now? Slavery and division of resources bred a social hierarchy allowing the arts to flourish and democracy to evolve. Only anarchy and pure communism can do otherwise - neither lead to arts or stable rule. To call the Greeks "sexist" while admiring their presentation of the human form, whether male or female, seems a bit thin. Given his presentation of goddesses, muses, and Sappho herself, his stance is almost false.

Cahill's title is interesting in view of how little attention he gives the Greek empire. Their forays around the Mediterranean are but sketchily noted. Greek settlement on Sicily is mentioned, but little else. There is allusion of cultural imports from Egypt, but these might have been obtained from Egyptians or Levant peoples bringing them in as much as the Greeks seeking innovation from outside. The focus here is Athens, almost to the point of exclusion of the remainder of Greece. Sparta's militarism is touched on in contrast to the more democratic and urbane Athens. 'How Greek was Macedonia?', Cahill enquires, then dismisses the question. Yet, it was Macedonia's Alexander, as Cahill himself notes, who extended the "Greek Ideal" further afield than the Athenians could envision.

If the reader can recognise that this book can only represent a small step toward understanding ancient societies, particularly that of the Greeks, then this book may be considered a good start. Although sprinkled with notes, coyly marked with Greek letters instead of numbers or asterisks, this is hardly a scholarly effort. The use and definition of Greek words that migrated into other European languages is useful, but tedious to transcribe. It's not clear why the Greek alphabet is included, but the Pronouncing Glossary is truly only a recapitulation of the "cast of characters" for which the Index could suffice. The Notes and Sources are a good reading list, focussing on recent works where possible. There is no discussion of contending ideas among scholars studying the period here or in the text. A collection of photos enhances and expands on some of the text, and the one map is useful if you don't have an atlas. [stephen a. haines - Ottawa, Canada]

Rating: 3 stars
Summary: Not Quite Up to the Standard of Arete
Review: As a Greek-American, a college professor who has taught a course on the ancient Greeks (Hellenes), and something of a fan of Thomas Cahill, I was very excited to see his latest book on the rise of the Western Liberal Tradition, "Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter." Perhaps because my expectations were so high, I was a little disappointed. It is a worthy volume in his "Hinges of History" series, but it is not without some problems. But let us be honest, Cahill is a humanist and speaks of ancient Hellas from the perspective of the humanities in general rather than history or political science and that may be the problem here. Much of his historical narrative is episodic and misses some vital points. For instance, despite his title, "Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea," he fails to emphasize the importance of the sea to Greek life or mention the battle of Salamis, "Holy Salamis," which according to many historians, including Victor Davis Hanson, saved Western culture from the Iranian (Achaemenid Persian) onslaught. Cahill devotes a chapter to "The Warrior: How to Fight," but makes no mention of this vital battle or the importance of Hellenic warfare by use of the trireme. The battle is not even included in his brief Chronology (later battles, Plataea and Mycale, are mentioned). True, some have questioned the overall impact of Salamis, but to the Hellenes it was a victory sent by the gods. It is interesting that this subject is missing but other, rather obscure cultural elements such as a somewhat odd emphasis on Greek sexual preferences, are included. Still, this is a valuable volume that will be embraced by the general public. In this context, his discussion of Christianity's debt to the Greeks is quite accurate and illuminating. And like a number of others he reminds us of the current relevance of Thucydides, in light of American imperial temptaions in the Persian Gulf. Even so, the West's debt to a people that gave us the single most defining element of the Western Liberal Tradition, "secularism" and the division of church and state, the very notion that the people who live by law should have the right to write them and govern themselves according to written constitutions, is only a passing reference here, and reduces the impact of what could have been a much better book.

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: The Yeoman Review
Review: As a work-a-day person with historical bent, sometimes I like to refresh my appreciation of human progress. I cannot pretend to be a scholar. "Sailing the Wine Dark Sea" was a good lunchtime companion and overall, a pleasant read. No one should entertain the notion that this volume is presented as definitive study. There are many better, more thorough academic tomes detailing the minutiae of Greek life and culture. However, hefting them to the lunchcounter is a cumbersome affair.

Mr. Cahill gave me accessible, fresh perspective on classical Greek culture. Certainly the book concentrates on the foundational aspects of Greek invention, which are amply addressed and quite enjoyable. His discussion of Greek eroticism may disturb some readers who prefer to marginalize this aspect of classical culture. Mr. Cahill portrays the sexuality in certain circles of ancient Greece rather openly. Which is not something many books on the Greeks do. I am rereading a copy of the Dialogues which says in the Foreword, "A word is necessary about the vice of boy-loving which disfigured much of ancient Greece. . .in some states it was accepted even in law . . ." Not much interpretation there, though avoidance aplenty, methinks. Mr. Cahill manages to discuss the topic without opprobrium or applause. Frankly, I wouldn't buy a book detailing Greek homosexuality. Not because it disturbs me, there are just too many other fascinating topics that define the builders of the Parthenon and they beg my attention. However, the discussion in "Wine Dark Sea" lent context and gave me insight.

Belaboring, as I do, a yeoman's understanding of Plato, the accessibility of Mr. Cahill's work is an assist. I doubt Mr. Cahill intended "Wine Dark Sea," to be a by-word in discussions of classical Greece. I think he wrote the book for readers like me.

"Sailing the Wine Dark Sea," is far better pastime than the surfeit of pseudo-history clogging bestseller lists. It was provoking enough to merit a week of toting into the lunch mavens of yonder office park (where i do much of my more cherishable reading). That said, I will carry Mr. Cahill along with me for as long as he cares to write, since I always gain new prespective.

Why else read?

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: A Needed understanding
Review: At a time when the western world and western values are under siege from secular and third world fascists this book is a needed remedy extolling the virtues of Greek Civilization and Greek common values. The Greeks are one of the many pillars of the western way of life. The author shows how much of our heritage comes from the Greek way of Life and Greek values. He explains how Greek Democracy, although not perfect, laid the foundation for a small group of American rebels in 1776. The book explains how Greek ideas about freedom and love of art helped create the Renaissance in the 1500s which influences our tolerance of the profane today.

This is an important work, although by no means the most interesting of the 'hinges' series it is a very insightful and intelligent account. The book mostly focuses on Athenian Greek life and the philosophers and ideas it produced.

An interesting book, a good companion to the other 'Hinges' books that look at the Irish and the Jewish contributions to the Western way of life.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Thoroughly Enjoyable
Review: Cahill's "Hinges of History" thus far have been fun, enlightening, educational, and insightful. This latest volume (4 of 7) is easily the best since "How the Irish Saved Civilization." Seasoned historians and classicists will probably find little new, though Cahill's narrative remains fresh and passionate. This is an especially appropriate starting point for those who honestly don't know much about antiquity and would like to find out why ancient Greece is continually stressed as one of the two main foundations for the entirety of Western culture.

Please keep in mind that this series is Cahill writing as a popularist, not as a more academic historian, and while popularists are often criticized by those who prefer stodgier academia, I maintain that popularists fill a vital niche in the furthering education of our societies.

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Another Great Ride with Cahill Through the Waves of History
Review: Cahill's "Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter" may be too elementary for those who are steeped in Classical Greek Civilization. But for those like me, who chose math & science over arts & letters, this was a great read.

Cahill takes the reader through the development of Greek culture, its merger with Roman culture, and, the merger of Greco-Roman culture with Judeo-Christian culture creating "the mighty torrent" of Western civilization. The last required the meshing of two separate ideas about the individual - the Greco-Roman's journey of individual public achievement (fate was central) with the Judeo-Christian's personal journey with God (hope was central).

Each chapter had something to offer keeping the reader engaged throughout. I found many gems including but not limited to:
- the Greeks created the first vowels significantly reducing the power of the scribes, who had a monopoly on interpretation. This, in turn,led to a free flow of ideas and speech.
- the Greeks established public service without compensation.
- Medea as a forerunner in women's rights.
- the beginnings of social, political, and artistic study, and the love of wisdom.
- the raising of fundamental questions like "What is the nature of reality?"
- Greek warfare, and its implications today in the US' role as the sole world power.

Cahill covers all the important classics like the Iliad and the Odyssey; the role of the Gods (Aphrodites exposed "the forbidden power of women" for the first time in history); the Persian Wars (if they had lost, Western civilization would not be what it is today); important figures like Sophicles, Plato, Phythagorus, Socrates (provided a radical challenge to the unexamined assumptions of Greek Life and the concept of forgiveness), Alexander the Great, and Peracles; and the invention of Theology, Philosophy, Ethics (How best to live), Political Science, Physical Science, Medicine, Psychology, and Mathematics.

This book did what was intended - appreciating the Greek's role in the formation of Western Civilization - and will be a book I will refer to in the years to come.




Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Multiculturalist Antidote
Review: Cahill's object in this book is not to present a scholarly screed on the merits and demerits of the Ancient Greeks, but to transmit to the reader their humanity and personality in a way that veers from lyricism to a selective recitation of how they lived to influence the rise of the West. Not for him the weary recounting of kings and battles, but rather the enjoyment of their art, a meditation on their language, and an appreciation of their myths.

I, a relative novice in the historical arts, mired in the contemporary dogmas of multiculturalism, gained something from this book. It is that culture matters, and that not all cultures are equal at all times, for all times. The Greeks brought some unique materials to the table of a progressing civilization, and it merits some study to determine what the threads running through it were.

Their much celebrated discoveries of the practice of democracy, their penchant for skepticism, and invention of a heartless logic, all influence our own version of civilization in ways that we are hardly aware of, and that our pedagogues of today would have you believe came from everywhere but the Greeks.

Yes, the Greeks enslaved others, they killed one another endlessly, loved carelessly, believed in the merits of their race, and excluded women from their political palavers. But this is true of almost all civilizations everywhere at all times, and arguing that the Greeks are unworthy of our attention as a consequence, although fashionable in the current abominations of the academy, is as stupid as arguing that chemistry can be taught without acknowledging the centrality of the elements.

Cahill's sometimes excessively irreverent style, and his annoying attention to speculations on sexual matters, occasionally get in the way of his central message, but overall he has done a credible job here and produced a thought-provoking book that is worth reading, especially for multiculturalists with an open mind.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Boring
Review: Having read other informative, well-written books by Thomas Cahill, I was dismayed by this one. As a cure for insomnia, I'd recommend it. Otherwise, steer clear.

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Not Challenging but Useful
Review: How the Irish Saved Civilization is a marvelous book. Though none of the subsequent books in what has become "The Hinges of History" series have equaled the first one, Cahill continues to write very readable accounts of the development of Western civilization. This book, subtitled "Why the Greeks Matter," is, as you might suspect, a sketch of the contributions of the ancient Greeks to our culture from Homer through the influence of Greek though on early Christianity.

I have a soft spot for Greek culture so I was easily won over by this book. Though there is some value to the trend of multiculturalism that has permeated American schools in recent decades, I believe strongly that no culture has had more impact on modern Western civilization than the Greeks and we ignore them at our peril. In examining the strengths and weaknesses of the Greeks, we can see an image of our own strengths and weaknesses.

I was a little disappointed to find very little discussion of the Greek development of mathematics (beyond a brief discussion of Pythagoras, focusing mainly on his philosophy). Greek formalization of mathematics may be their most important legacy to us, ultimately leading to modern science. Instead, Cahill focuses mainly on literature, art, philosophy and politics and, in these areas, offers a nice history.

Clearly, Cahill is knowledgeable and his prose is very readable despite his tendency to quote extensively in this book. He doesn't offer us many unique or challenging insights but he does remind us of the great contributions of Greek culture. It is a valuable thing to do.

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Not Challenging but Useful
Review: How the Irish Saved Civilization is a marvelous book. Though none of the subsequent books in what has become "The Hinges of History" series have equaled the first one, Cahill continues to write very readable accounts of the development of Western civilization. This book, subtitled "Why the Greeks Matter," is, as you might suspect, a sketch of the contributions of the ancient Greeks to our culture from Homer through the influence of Greek though on early Christianity.

I have a soft spot for Greek culture so I was easily won over by this book. Though there is some value to the trend of multiculturalism that has permeated American schools in recent decades, I believe strongly that no culture has had more impact on modern Western civilization than the Greeks and we ignore them at our peril. In examining the strengths and weaknesses of the Greeks, we can see an image of our own strengths and weaknesses.

I was a little disappointed to find very little discussion of the Greek development of mathematics (beyond a brief discussion of Pythagoras, focusing mainly on his philosophy). Greek formalization of mathematics may be their most important legacy to us, ultimately leading to modern science. Instead, Cahill focuses mainly on literature, art, philosophy and politics and, in these areas, offers a nice history.

Clearly, Cahill is knowledgeable and his prose is very readable despite his tendency to quote extensively in this book. He doesn't offer us many unique or challenging insights but he does remind us of the great contributions of Greek culture. It is a valuable thing to do.


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